Need help with accuracy, please

taylorman1949 · August 22, 2008, 04:52:34 PM

I'm new to percussion revolvers, and I went to the range today with my '58 remington and shot at a 10 yard target. Not a one was even on the rings, most were about a foot low and 8 or 9 inches to the left. I tried bringing the front sight up as far as the barrel and still low. Also I could hardly even see the sights to aim, it was a little better with my reading glasses on but then the target was blurry.
I could really appreciate some pointers, I'm gonna stick with it till I get it right.
I heard scrubbing the bore with JB Bore compound helps accuracy?

Pettifogger · August 22, 2008, 05:01:13 PM

Original style C&B guns have terrible sights. That's part of the game. Shooting somewhere other than where you are pointing is also pretty normal. Are you getting a group? If so, then it's a matter of regulating the sights or learning some Kentucky windage. Most C&Bs shoot high, so its hard to visualize how you can be holding all the way on the bottom of the front sight and still shooting low. On the Remmies, you can adjust the windage by turning the barrel. Elevation usually required raising or lowering the front sight. What load are you shooting? If you aren't getting any kind of group, then you need to measure the bore and chambers and see what's wrong.

Virginia Mike · August 22, 2008, 06:35:24 PM

Use the same point of aim and see what your groups are doing. If you have a nice group 3 inches low and 4 to the left no problem file a little off the front sight and move it to the right till you get it where you want. Also start with about 15 grains of BP, try a 454 size ball as well.

Good luck

taylorman1949 · August 22, 2008, 07:21:41 PM

Its a Pietta with fixed sights, I've been using 22 grains of goex 3F, with Speer 451 and 454 balls. Also I invested in Treso nipples which seem to help, I can shoot 3 or 4 cylinders without a misfire or any sticking.
I'm an OK shot, mostly rifles like my Marlin 45 Colt carbine I shoot BP cartridges.
There doesn't seem to be any real pattern other than they go way left and down. If I raise the front bead all the way till it meets the barrel its still low at 10 yards.

hellgate · August 22, 2008, 09:19:47 PM

First, shoot it from a sandbag rest with both the butt and barrel solidly anchored on the bags (they're gonna get sooted up). The solid rest is to rule out any tendency to pull down and left for a right handed shooter shooting off hand. On a Pietta, all you can do is file down the sight to raise the POI and turn the barrel to adjust windage. Short of that you need to bend the barrel. Once you see where it hits from a solid rest then you can calculate how much adjustment it needs.
Here's the formula for how much to raise the front or lower the rear sight on a C&B: First you need to measure your sight radius from the sight notch to the tip of the front sight. Next you need to determine the distance at which you are going to be sighting in or shooting. Let's say the targets are 10yds away and the sight radius is 10" and the gun shoots 6" low. The formula is a ratio. Everything is to be stated in inches. The correction on the gun is to the sight radius as is the correction needed on the target is to the distance. X/sightradius=6"/360" You then solve for "X". X/10=6/360 X=1/6" or about .17" to be taken off the front sight to line up the POA with the POI
Email me for info on turning the barrel. On the Ubertis and Euroarms Remmies you have a dove tailed front sight to tap over.

Fox Creek Kid · August 22, 2008, 09:46:17 PM

QuoteThe correction on the gun is to the sight radius as is the correction needed on the target is to the distance. X/sightradius=6"/360" You then solve for "X". X/10=6/360 X=1/6" or about .17" to be taken off the front sight to line up the POA with the POI

Hellgate, does that formula work if a person is crossing the equator on a train moving 60 mph during a lunar eclipse in a leap year?

hellgate · August 22, 2008, 10:13:46 PM

Hey FCK, I had to find the formula after I bought a gun from you!!
(Just kidding! I can't remember anything any more, too many guns, too many "deals" to remember.)
Hey folks, FCK is a stand up guy.

Wolfgang · August 22, 2008, 10:41:56 PM

Is your bore leaded ? . . . I badly leaded the bore of my first Pietta very rapidly with the .451 balls that came in a Cabelas "starter kit". .451 balls in a barrel that I found to be .454 had hot gas going around the ball and accuracy went west by the third round that I shot thru it. Took a couple of weeks to find out that I needed bigger diameter balls. De leaded the barrel with vingar and a bronze brush, . . used .457 balls. Accuracy great.

. I shoot with a 6 o'clock hold. For any reasonable range to be achieved the pistol must shoot pretty hight at mid ranges. I understand that the originals were sighted for 100 yards. For that gotta be pretty hight at 40-50 yards. Accuracy fantastic with hollow based connical bullets, . . but pretty expensive. $:-\$

Frenchie · August 23, 2008, 10:20:21 AM

I think the target is supposed to be out of focus, isn't it? You're supposed to have the front sight in focus. That's what I keep reading, and not doing very well at. Yeah, you need to get a very steady rest to find out where it's actually shooting, then compensate with Kentucky windage or fixing the sight(s). And make sure your bullets aren't too small for the barrel. If they don't catch the rifling and don't seal the bore, they'll go all over the place even if the sights are dead on.

taylorman1949 · August 23, 2008, 11:03:25 AM

I forgot to mention, I was shooting from a sandbag rest at 10 yards. What do you mean by "turning the barrel?" do you mean aiming to the right of the bullseye?

hellgate · August 23, 2008, 01:37:21 PM

Taylorman, it means screwing the barrel further in or further out a smidge which rotates the front sight a little to the right or left.

Wolfgang · August 23, 2008, 08:25:10 PM

"turning the barrel" refers to actually turning the barrel in the frame so that the sight is moved slightly in which direction is necessary to correct the point of impact. acutally the point of impact stays the same. It is getting the sights to "look" where the point of impact is. I haven't tried doing it. One of my '58s shot a bit to the left and I corrected it by filing the notched rear sight into a spuare rear sight and in doing so "moving it" slightly to the right thereby bringing the sight picture to where the point of impact is. Hopefully this is a little clearer than a big bucket of Mississippi mud ? . . . Someone who has turned barrels will no doubt chime in.

hellgate · August 23, 2008, 11:23:36 PM

Barrel turning:
If your gun is a Pietta you can rotate the barrel alittle bit counter clockwise to change where it hits. If a Uberti then it is epoxied tight. I had a lesson from the late Tom Ball:
Take out the rammer and score the underside of the barrel where it meets the frame for reference. Put the barrel in a padded vise and using cardboard to protect the frame you can take a cresent or monkey wrench and slightly twist the frame clockwise to rotate the barrel (the front sight being moved with it) a tad to move the POA to the aiming point. If you calculate the correction needed (lateral movement of the front sight) you need to measure the radius from center bore to the tip of the sight and figure the number of degrees of rotation needed to move the front sight "over". I did it at home but also mounted a vise on a 2X4 and clamped the board to the shooting bench at the range. It was a good idea because I had 2 Remingtons and tweeked one of them a little too far and needed to untweek it. Saved a trip to the range and about a week's time. Bring cereal box or tablet backing cardboard for padding the gun.

A quote from an email to me from the late Tom Ball gunsmith to NSSA accurate Remington shooters:
"Hi, unscrew your barrel a little bit, if you put a scribe mark on the barrel and frame, unscrew it about the width of the scribe. Which should move you about an inch and a half, then you may need to unscrew it a bit more! Until you get it where you want it. Remove the loading lever assembly, and cyl pin and put a witness mark between the barrel and frame whereit enters. Put the barrel in a vice, with thin [cereal box thickness] on each side of the barrel and tighten up! Then use a big adjustable wrench, with cardboard between the jaws, and clamp firmly on the flats of the frame just behind the barrel, and unscrew it a little bit which will move the front sight to the right and cause the shots to go farther left! that is unless the gun is a Uberti, then the barrel is locktited in and cannot be moved."