Which do you perfer-Swiss or Goex?

[Dick Dastardly]

So ranch,

Kin yer rig go a Two Hundred rounds without need to clean to maintain function or accuracy.  Mine can.  I've finally proven it.  Here's the last Fifteen rounds at a hundred yards after running Two Hundred.  Powder - LIDU/Dragon FFFg.  Bullet - Mav Dutchman,  Gun -  Browning 92 44 Magnum.  From the way it was going, I'd be confident that I could have done as well after a Thousand.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

DD-DLoS

[Ranch 13]

 Better question might be who would want or really need to go 200 bp rounds without cleaning  Folks been shootin bp loads out of different guns for a long time, with out the biglube bullets, spect they might keep on keepin on with out biglube bullets.
Don't smoke, but did quit chewing after 40 years of em tellin me how it was gonna kill me.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Ranch 13, the advantage, and a big one at that, of the Big Lube bullets is that the large amount of lube they carry means that one can easily shoot a CAS match without having to clean or worry about the fouling turning to concrete between stages when it dries. When I was using the regular Lee .44 200 gr. FN bullet I fouled out quickly in a revolver (and sooner in a lever action rifle) even using SPG lube as those bullets simply don't carry enough lube to make it through a match. I was one of those who received a .44 MAV Big Lube mould from the first production run in 2002 and am a convert. It works, plain & simple as a simple perusal of this board is chock full of testimonies from converts who use nothing but Big Lube style bullets. 

[Ranch 13]

 Well by golly that's all just fine and dandy.  ::)Altho I don't see what that has to do with which anyone prefers imported powder or Goex?
  I still don't see what the big deal is about taking 5 maybe ten minutes between relays to give a gun a quick bit of maintenance.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I still don't see what the big deal is about taking 5 maybe ten minutes between relays to give a gun a quick bit of maintenance.

I'll assume you do not shoot CAS much if any as any sane human does not want to have clean their revolver(s) & rifle six or seven times during a CAS match. At many shoots there simply isn't enough time as you are either spotting, brassing or watching the loading/unloading tables when you are not shooting.

[Ranch 13]

Have you ever thought about how much of the crap from the fouling on the outside of your beloved hoglegs is soaking into your holsters, and scabbards, while you're running around with the filthy thing danlin from your holster , tryin to look reall good , mostly doing busy work,and probably mostly gettin underfoot ?

Seems as tho this thread is yet another one turning into an unpaid and mostly unsolicited advertisement for biglube boolets.

Dang funny ain't it how folks run untold thousands of bp rounds thru all sorts of rifles, handguns and the like for hunnert and some years, before the first biglube boolet ever hit the market place Wonder how that was done.

[Wills Point Pete]

 Ranch, you understand that I wasn't there but the archaeologists claim that once those Trapdoor Springfields at the Little Big Horn got a little dirty they quit extracting the empties. I bet those boys in the Seventh Cavalry would have loved some of Dick Dastardly's Big Lubes. There were a lot of folks who ended up seriously dead when those old black powder lguns quit working because of not enough lube.
Now I no longer go to work with a smokeless beltgun on my hip and a shotgun in the Lectrolock bolted onto the dash. I often belt on a SAA clone with five rounds in it and a couple-three gunfulls of BP ammo stashed someplace. I don't expect trouble but I sure want my shootin' iron to work, just in case. First round to last round.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Better question might be who would want or really need to go 200 bp rounds without cleaning    Folks been shootin bp loads out of different guns for a long time, with out the biglube bullets, spect they might keep on keepin on with out biglube bullets.
Don't smoke, but did quit chewing after 40 years of em tellin me how it was gonna kill me.

The difference is not many people shot as much in the old days as we do today. We shoot more in one CAS match than most shooters did in a whole year in the 19th Century. It's not really 200 rounds without cleaning. In a typical 8 stage match, we will go through probably 80 pistol rounds and 80 rifle rounds. Maybe 25-40 shotgun rounds. It's nice not to have to stop and clean partway through the match.

Well by golly that's all just fine and dandy.  ::)Altho I don't see what that has to do with which anyone prefers imported powder or Goex?
   I still don't see what the big deal is about taking 5 maybe ten minutes between relays to give a gun a quick bit of maintenance.

Much of the powder produced in the 19th Century was of better quality than some of the powders available today. It left less soot behind. Traditional bullets, with relatively small lube grooves could deal with the fouling left behind by superior powder much better than some of the dirty powders available today. Goex is particularly dirty stuff. Swiss is particularly clean. The Big Lube bullets shine best when used with dirty powders like Goex. If one wants to spend more money on imported Swiss powder in order to get better performance out of traditionally designed bullets, that's fine. I prefer to spend less money on my powder, partucularly with the amount we go through in CAS. I go through about 12-15 pounds of powder every year. That much Swiss will really add up. I used to swab out my rifle barrel every few stages when I was shooting Goex and pan lubed bullets with thin lube grooves. I had to wipe off my cylinders every few stages too. No, it was not the end of the world, I just prefer not to do it. This way I can devote more time to my posse duties like spotting, manning the loading and unloading tables, and shagging brass.

Have you ever thought about how much of the crap from the fouling on the outside of your beloved hoglegs is soaking into your holsters, and scabbards, while you're running around with the filthy thing danlin from your holster , tryin to look reall good , mostly doing busy work,and probably mostly gettin underfoot ?

Seems as tho this thread is yet another one turning into an unpaid and mostly unsolicited advertisement for biglube boolets. 

Dang funny ain't it how folks run untold thousands of bp rounds thru all sorts of rifles, handguns and the like for hunnert and some years, before the first biglube boolet ever hit the market place   Wonder how that was done.

If you don't want to shoot Big Lube bullets, that's fine for you. I have been shooting nothing but Black Powder in CAS for 4 or 5 years now. Yes, my holsters look a bit darkened and worn. No, they are not caked with black crud as you imply. Performing needed posse chores is far from getting underfoot. No the Big Lube bullets are not for everybody. They certainly entail more work casting and sizing them myself than using store bought bullets, and they eat up gobs of lube.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. You can either do the work upfront, casting and sizing Big Lube bullets and using up tons of lube, while still shooting cheap Goex powder, or you can go with the more traditional stuff and do the work in the field. You have obviously chosen the latter course. Some of us have chosen the former course.

[Ace Lungger]

  I want to thank each and everyone of you folks for your opitions on what powder to use? When  I got my first BP, I got a can of Goex and a jug of Schuetzen, then after consulting with DJ, I swaped my Goex for Schuetzen, and I plan on staying with it instead of have 2-3 different types of BP. I hope my Sharps like the Schuetzen , I am also going to use it in my C&B pistols if I ever go to shoot
I am still going to shoot smokeless in my other CAS guns, just because I don't shoot any SASS matches, and I have only shoot 1 full shoot, and 2 stations in another match. If your back is hurting so bad you are not injoying the shoot, then there isn't any reason to stay!So I am going to try to go to a match the first sat of Sept. if they are going to have a shoot at Cassville, they have enough shooters you get some seat time between stages!

Thanks so much for all the help!

ACE

[TAkaho kid]

Ranch, you understand that I wasn't there but the archaeologists claim that once those Trapdoor Springfields at the Little Big Horn got a little dirty they quit extracting the empties. I bet those boys in the Seventh Cavalry would have loved some of Dick Dastardly's Big Lubes. There were a lot of folks who ended up seriously dead when those old black powder lguns quit working because of not enough lube.
Now I no longer go to work with a smokeless beltgun on my hip and a shotgun in the Lectrolock bolted onto the dash. I often belt on a SAA clone with five rounds in it and a couple-three gunfulls of BP ammo stashed someplace. I don't expect trouble but I sure want my shootin' iron to work, just in case. First round to last round.

Willis, Have to call you out on this one. The problem Custers men expereinced with extraction was not due to lack of lube it was soft copper cases and dirty ones at that. In addition lube has nothing to do with extraction. Only with chambering and hard fouling. Ironicly brass cases were available but with the congress at the time being as tight as the bark on a maple tree in a 30 degree below zero northeaster they wouldn't spring for em. thus Custer and his men had inferior soft copper cases. Copper seals real well but it dosn't spring away from the chamber walls as brass doaes. thus the problem. Combine that with a bit of corrosion and well..... you get the picture.

Now, if you want a real problem smear your cases and chamber up with lube and see what happens. Have fun getting the pieces of the case out.

Nearly all the cases found on the battle field that showed a problem wasn't due to faulty insertion into the chamber it was extraction after being fired.

T.K.

[Gripmaker]

Allow me to throw a monkey wrench into the works here.  I am presently using Goex Pinnacle (American Pioneer painted black) and have as yet to have to clean any of my guns for a week after a good long shoot.  I realize this is pure blasphemy to even mention subs but they work wonderfully in my guns and shoot quite accurately (6" groups @ 100 yds in Uberti 66/44-40) for what they are. 

Now, I used to shoot long range (500-1000 yds) with some custom made single shot muzzle loaders years ago and used nothing but WANO made powders. I happen to think these are the best, especially when you can get the same powder from GRAF and Sons here in MO. for about $12/lb and still get velocity/accuracy of old. I have shot deer at 400+ yds with a double 50 cal. express rifle and wouldn't hesitate to try it again BUT, it has more to do with knowing the rifle and its capabilities than whether Goex is better than Swiss or Schuetzen.   Know your gun, know your load, know yourself and you will know which way to go.

Ace,  Hope to see Ya at Cassville in Sept.  God Bless and shoot safe.

[Ace Lungger]

 :)GM,
If the Lord is willing I plan to be there!! It is killing me to have all my gear and not be able to go shoot I just hope you all have a lot of shooters so i can get some seat time!! If I do, I will be okay (I think) I went to a very small swap meet Sat. morning, stood up about 30 mins, and by afternoon I had to lay in bed the rest of the day
Hope to see you there!
ACE