Jose Luis Nazario, Jr.

[Forty Rod]

a former USMC Sergeant, now discharged, is being tried in a CIVILIAN court for alleged war crimes while in Iraq. The Corps didn't see fit to try him, but some politically-motivated leftist ass is going to.

That means that every one of us who ever served and had to take possibly lethal action against the enemies we were charged to destroy can be recalled to stand trial if someone gets a hair up their butt.

If I were still in uniform I would absolutely refuse to take up arms ever again upon pain of imprisonment. Why should any of our guys risk this kind of Monday morning quarterbacking by CIVILIAN JURIES. You know the prosecution will make sure no vets are on those juries.

DAMN I'm pissed about this!

[Sod Buster]

The judge should throw out the case.

[Forty Rod]

FEDERAL LAW!

Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, 2000, amended in 2004.

FEDERAL PROSECUTOR!

FEDERAL JUDGE!

[Ol Gabe]

FYI...
Here is the AP story on this.
Best regards and pray for common sense,
'Ol Gabe
...
Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court

Aug 17, 11:58 PM (ET)

By CHELSEA J. CARTER

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) - A former Marine sergeant facing the first federal civilian prosecution of a military member accused of a war crime says there is much more at stake than his claim of innocence on charges that he killed unarmed detainees in Fallujah, Iraq.

In the view of Jose Luis Nazario Jr., U.S. troops may begin to question whether they will be prosecuted by civilians for doing what their military superiors taught them to do in battle.

Nazario is the first military service member who has completed his duty to be brought to trial under a law that allows the government to prosecute defense contractors, military dependents and those no longer in the military who commit crimes outside the United States.

"They train us, and they expect us to rely back on that training. Then when we use that training, they prosecute us for it?" Nazario said during an interview Saturday with The Associated Press.

"I didn't do anything wrong. I don't think I should be the first tried like this," said Nazario, whose trial begins Tuesday in Riverside, east of Los Angeles.

If Nazario, 28, is convicted of voluntary manslaughter, some predict damaging consequences on the battlefield.

"This boils down to one thing in my mind: Are we going to allow civilian juries to Monday-morning-quarterback military decisions?" said Nazario's attorney, Kevin McDermott.

Others say the law closes a loophole that allowed former military service members to slip beyond the reach of prosecution. Once they complete their terms, troops cannot be prosecuted in military court.

Scott Silliman, a law professor and executive director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University, says it has little to do with questioning military decisions and everything to do with whether a service member committed a crime.

"From a legal point of view, there is no difference in law between war and peace," he said.

The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act law was written in 2000 and amended in 2004 primarily to prosecute civilian contractors who commit crimes while working for the U.S. overseas. One of the authors contends prosecuting former military personnel was "not the motivation."

"I don't fault the Department of Justice for using what legal authority they have if a clear criminal act has been committed. But I do think that it would be preferable for crimes committed on active duty be prosecuted by court martial rather than in civilian courts," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

"I think maybe what it says is we need to rethink the question of military personnel who are subject to prosecution."

Telephone messages for a spokesman in the U.S. attorney's office in Los Angeles seeking comment were not returned.

Nazario, of Riverside, is charged with one count of voluntary manslaughter on suspicion of killing or causing others to kill four unarmed detainees in November 2004 in Fallujah, during some of the fiercest fighting of the war. He also faces one count of assault with a deadly weapon and one count of discharging a firearm during a crime of violence.

If convicted of all charges, he could face more than 10 years in prison.

The case came to light in 2006, when Nazario's former squadmate, Sgt. Ryan Weemer, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed. Weemer was ordered this month to stand trial in military court on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty in the killing of an unarmed detainee in Fallujah. He has pleaded not guilty.

According to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service criminal complaint, several Marines allege Nazario shot two Iraqi men who had been detained while his squad searched a house. The complaint claims four Iraqi men were killed during the action.

The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.

"Nazario said that he was asked, 'Are they dead yet?'" the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to "make it happen."

Nazario later received the Navy-Marine Corps Commendation Medal with a 'V' for valor for combat and leadership in Fallujah.

Though Nazario and his attorneys declined to discuss the facts of the case with the AP, the former Marine has always maintained his innocence.

After leaving the military, Nazario worked as an officer with the Riverside Police Department and was close to completing his one-year probation. He said he knew nothing of the investigation until he was arrested Aug. 7, 2007, after being called into the watch commander's office to sign a performance review.

He said he was leaning forward to sign when he was grabbed from behind by his fellow officers, told he had been charged with a war crime and was turned over to Navy investigators waiting in a nearby room. Because he had not completed probation, the police department fired him.

Since then, he said, has been unable to find work.

"You're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty," he said. "I've put in applications everywhere for everything. But nobody wants to hire you if you have been indicted."

Without income, Nazario said, he has been forced to move in with his parents in New York. He and his wife resorted to selling some of their household goods, such as electronics equipment, to a pawn shop.

His wife, once a stay-at-home mother to their 2-year-old son, has gone to work as a customer service receptionist, he said. She will be unable to attend his trial.

"She has to work. We need the money," he said, his eyes reddening as he blinked away tears.

Nazario said he has no regrets about being a Marine, only regrets about what has happened since.

"My faith in the system is shaken. There's no doubt about that," he said.

One of Nazario's defense attorneys, Doug Applegate, said he believes that ultimately the former Marine will be acquitted because of lack of evidence.

"There are no bodies, no forensic evidence, no crime scene and no identities," he said.

It is unclear what, if anything, Marines being subpoenaed to testify will say about the events in the house in Fallujah.

Another Marine, Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, 26, of New York is slated to be court-martialed in December on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty for his role in the deaths.

Although he has not entered a plea in military court, Nelson's attorney has said his client is innocent.

Nelson and Weemer were jailed in June for contempt of court for refusing to testify against Nazario before a federal grand jury believed to be investigating the case. Both were released July 3 and returned to Camp Pendleton.

---

Chelsea J. Carter covers military affairs in Southern California. Associated Press writer Ben Evans in Washington contributed to this report.

[Forty Rod]

Thanks, Gabe.

[Forty Rod]

I don't undersatnd why everyone isn't furious over this.

[Ol Gabe]

FYI, update, 8/25/'08...

2 Marines found in contempt of court

They refuse to testify at the trial of their former squad leader, ex-Marine Jose Nazario, who is accused of killing Iraqis. A federal judge refuses to jail the two.
By Tony Perry, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 23, 2008
Two Marines refused to testify Friday against a former squad leader accused of killing Iraqi detainees, angering a prosecutor who said their refusal does grave harm to the government's case in the first civilian trial of a former service member accused of violating military rules of engagement.
The prosecutor asked the judge to jail the Marines for failing to testify, but the judge refused.
U.S. District Judge Stephen Larson, who is presiding over the trial in Riverside of former Sgt. Jose Nazario, said putting Sgt. Ryan Weemer and Sgt. Jermaine Nelson in jail would not convince them to testify. He had jailed both for refusing to testify to the grand jury earlier this year.
Weemer and Nelson face murder charges at Camp Pendleton in the same alleged killings with which Nazario is charged. The prosecution against Nazario is being watched closely because of its unique blend of the civilian and military worlds.
In the past, Weemer and Nelson have given detailed statements about the 2004 incident, which occurred in the first day of the Marines' bloody, 10-day assault on insurgent strongholds in Fallouja, west of Baghdad.
Separately, the two told of taking four Iraqis as prisoners in a barricaded house and said Nazario killed two of them and ordered them to kill one each. The Marines opted to kill the four rather than take time to process them according to the law-of-war rules during the fast-moving battle, the two alleged.
On Friday, Assistant U.S. Atty. Jerry Behnke asked Larson to immediately put Nelson and Weemer in jail for six months. Larson refused, but set a Sept. 29 hearing to determine what, if any, punishment the two Marines should receive for being in contempt of court.
Attorneys for Nelson and Weemer said their clients are concerned that their testimony could be used against them in their upcoming courts-martial. Larson said he has been assured by Marine superiors that the immunity given the two in federal court will be honored.
Still, the two Marines would not budge, to the exasperation of Behnke, who called the move "a fraud on this jury."
"I don't think what is happening now is right and fair to the government and the United States," Behnke said.
Larson said he shares Behnke's frustration but is convinced nothing will coerce the two combat veterans to testify. "My suspicion is, given what the men have been through, there is not a lot they're afraid of," Larson said.
Nazario is charged under a 2000 law that allows federal prosecutors to charge Department of Defense civilian employees and contractors for crimes committed overseas. Nazario's supporters insist a civilian jury cannot understand the chaos and pressures of combat.
Weemer and Nelson on Friday were dressed in their military uniforms. Outside the courtroom, each embraced Nazario, who wore civilian clothes, and when they entered the courtroom they called one another "brother."
Before Larson decided whether to jail the two Marines, Joseph Low, who represents Nelson, asked the judge to consider "the unique sacrifices Sgt. Nelson has made for all of us -- that we all live under the blanket of freedom he provides with the blood that flows through his veins."
Weemer's attorney, Chris Johnson, asked Larson to "look at the Purple Heart on this decorated Marine's chest."
Weemer and Nelson initially said they would not testify because the immunity from prosecution that they received did not extend to the military courtroom. The letter of immunity came from a top lawyer at Camp Pendleton but not the top general.
But when Larson asked about it, they said they would not testify even if they had a signed letter of immunity from the general.
"Well, this has been a charade then, hasn't it?" Larson said.
Earlier, Larson had told the Marines that "nothing that is said in this courtroom can be used down at Camp Pendleton."
Weemer's past admissions about the killings came during a polygraph test administered in 2006 by the Secret Service when he was applying for a job. His admission provoked the investigation that led to military charges against him and Nelson, and civilian charges against Nazario, who had left the Marine Corps in 2005 after eight years.
Nelson spoke to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service agent in 2007 and later, at the agent's request, made a telephone call to Nazario and tried to get him to make incriminating statements.
Nelson, in the interview with the agent, said Nazario told him during the battle, "I'm not doing this (expletive) all myself. You're doing one and Weemer is doing one."
Once they hired attorneys, neither Weemer nor Nelson has been willing to discuss the Nov. 9, 2004, incident with investigators for the prosecution.
Both refused to testify before a federal grand jury investigating Nazario's role even though prosecutors promised that nothing they said could be used against them in their courts-martial.
After they still refused to testify, they were found in contempt of court by Larson and jailed.
Nelson, 26, served 18 days in two stretches, and Weemer, 25, served 21 days before Larson determined that keeping them behind bars would not compel them to testify.
The issue of whether a promise of immunity in the federal court can be binding on prosecutors in the military system is one of the legal complexities of the case. Another issue is whether military prosecutors will gain an advantage against Weemer and Nelson by listening to them testify at Nazario's trial.
Several Marine Corps prosecutors from Camp Pendleton were in the audience in the Riverside courtroom
Weemer and Nelson, despite their early cooperation and admissions, face more serious charges than Nazario, who has denied any wrongdoing. Weemer and Nelson face unpremeditated murder charges that could bring life sentences.
Weemer and Nelson are still in the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton.
Both have received the military equivalent of a preliminary hearing and been ordered to trial by Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland, commanding general of the Marine Force Central Command.
The charges against Nazario -- manslaughter, assault and using a firearm in a violent crime -- carry a maximum sentence of about 10 years, according to federal prosecutors. He was charged in federal court because he had left the Marine Corps, and thus was not subject to military law, before the investigation began in 2006.
On Thursday, Nazario's attorneys indicated that they plan to use a two-pronged defense: The killings did not occur, but if they did occur, they were justified during the violent, fast-moving battle in Fallouja as Marines sought to protect themselves against insurgents eager to kill them.
Larson ruled Thursday that if Weemer does not testify, his interview with the Secret Service cannot be used by the prosecution as evidence. The judge did not mention Nelson's tape-recorded interview with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Much of the pretrial discussion has involved whether civilian jurors judging Nazario's actions can understand combat.
But the case could hinge on the issue of whether jurors believe there is sufficient evidence that any killings occurred.
Prosecutors intend to call two Marines who were part of the same squad and allegedly saw the dead bodies minutes after they were shot but did not witness the shootings.
"There was no self-defense, there was no hostile intent [shown by the Iraqis]," Behnke said. "These were executions."
tony.perry@latimes.com

[litl rooster]

I don't undersatnd why everyone isn't furious over this.

Many of us are.......  Tic's me off more is why aren't Commanders brought up on these charges instead of the Grunt's

[Forty Rod]

Is it retroactive to Vietnam...and can we get John Kerry charged for the man he allegedly killed?

[litl rooster]

Is it retroactive to Vietnam...and can we get John Kerry charged for the man he allegedly killed?

key word is Allegedly

[Forty Rod]

key word is Allegedly

Yes it is, just like Sgt Nazario ALLEGEDLY shot those four men in Iraq.  Same proof as Kerry's case: hearsay.

Many of us are.......  Tic's me off more is why aren't Commanders brought up on these charges instead of the Grunt's

Why should anyone be brought up on charges in a CIVILIAN court?  That's what's pissing me off.

[Sod Buster]

Why should anyone be brought up on charges in a CIVILIAN court?  That's what's pissing me off.

Agreed.
What you do in combat while in the military should not be brought to a civilian court.  It is up to the military if charges are to be made or not. 

[Black Harris]

And was found not guilty today after six hours of deliberation! 

BH

[Forty Rod]

Hooray for the good guys, but he should have never been brought in front of a CIVILIAN COURT in the first place.

Wonder what would have become of Paul Tibbets under similar circumstances.

[litl rooster]

Hooray for the good guys, but he should have never been brought in front of a CIVILIAN COURT in the first place.

Wonder what would have become of Paul Tibbets under similar circumstances.

You could ty the Court systems up for a hundred years if you start proscuting GI's


40 my point is Grunts don't giive orders they follow them..... Your right they should never have to face a civilian court.

[Ol Gabe]

FYI...
Jury acquits former Marine in killing of Iraqis
Email this Story

Aug 28, 8:38 PM (ET)

By CHELSEA J. CARTER

RIVERSIDE, Calif. (AP) - A former Marine accused of killing unarmed Iraqi detainees was acquitted of voluntary manslaughter Thursday in a first-of-its-kind federal trial that ended with some of the jurors shaking hands and hugging the defendant and his sobbing mother.

The jury took less than six hours to find Jose Luis Nazario Jr. not guilty of charges that he killed or caused others to kill four unarmed detainees on Nov. 9, 2004, in Fallujah, Iraq, during some of the fiercest fighting of the war.

The verdict left the 28-year-old defendant - and some of the jurors - in tears. His mother, family and friends cried so loud the judge smacked his gavel in a call for order.

"It's been a long, hard year for my family," Nazario said outside the courtroom. "I need a moment to catch my breath and try to get my life back together."

Thursday's verdict marks the first time a civilian jury has determined whether the alleged actions of a former military service member in combat violated the law of war.

The jury forewoman, Ingrid Wicken, hugged Nazario's sobbing mother, Sandra Montanez, without speaking after the verdict was read. "I watched her all week. She was being tortured every day," Wicken said later.

"I thanked her, God blessed her," Montanez said. "I told her she gave me my son back. It was something I needed to say."

Wicken said the panel acquitted Nazario because there was not enough evidence against him.

"I think you don't know what goes on in combat until you are in combat," she said.

Nazario's attorney, Kevin McDermott, said he believes the verdict will curb faulty filings.

"I don't think they are going to put on a case in the future with a lack of evidence," McDermott said.

Prosecutors alleged that Nazario either killed or caused others to kill four unarmed Iraqi detainees in Fallujah during "Operation Phantom Fury," which resulted in house-to-house fighting.

Other former Marines testified during the five-day trial that they did not see Nazario kill detainees but heard the gunshots.

The case came to light in 2006 when Sgt. Ryan Weemer, Nazario's former squadmate, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed. That screening was not admitted at Nazario's trial.

Weemer and another Marine, Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, face military charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty. Both maintain their innocence, and both were found in contempt of court for refusing to testify against Nazario.

Had Nazario been convicted of voluntary manslaughter, assault with a deadly weapon and discharging a firearm during a crime of violence, he could have faced more than 10 years in prison.

On Wednesday, federal prosecutor Jerry Behnke urged the jury to convict Nazario, saying he violated his duty as a Marine and must be held accountable for his actions in Fallujah. He said the evidence showed the detainees had surrendered before the shooting.

McDermott told jurors they could not convict the former Marine sergeant of an alleged crime in which there were no bodies, no identities and no forensics.

The case against Nazario rested primarily on the accounts of his former comrades, including two who have been found in contempt of court for refusing to testify. Other former Marines testified during the five-day trial that they did not see Nazario kill the detainees but heard the gunshots.

Outside court, Nazario told The Associated Press that he had no ill will against the Marines who testified against him.

"After all this, they are still my brothers. I wish them the best," he said.

He did have strong words for those who brought the case against him, saying they had no business trying it before a civilian jury.

"I still believe this case should have went before a military court for the simple fact that military jurors have an easier time understanding what happens in combat," he said.

His attorneys argued during the trial that a conviction by a civilian jury would have lasting effects on military service members in combat, who might feel like any action they took in battle could be judged long after they left the military.

Nazario, however, said he understood what attorneys for both sides were trying to get across to jurors but worried about the panel's lack of military knowledge.

During the trial, jurors were given lessons by attorneys and witnesses who often had to define military terms and acronyms. At one point, a juror complained that she couldn't keep up with all the jargon.

Court reporters asked witnesses and attorneys to slow down their speech and to spell words such as Fallujah and Anbar.

After the proceedings ended, Nazario searched for a cell phone to call his wife, who was unable to attend the trial because of work. Nazario has been unemployed since he was fired from his job as a Riverside police officer shortly after his arrest last year.

He had to move his family in with relatives in New York when he was unable to find work, he said.

After he shared the verdict with his wife, she screamed and ran to their 2-year-old son.

"She screamed 'Daddy's innocent and he's coming home,'" he said.

[Fiddler Green]

So, what happens now to the Marines that refused to testify against him? I expect they will still face contempt of court charges.

Bruce

[Forty Rod]

And who will testify against them?  I doubt it will go anywhere...but I've been wrong before.

[Trailrider]

I thought it interesting that TCM broadcast "Breaker Morant" this morning.  I've not seen the whole thing before, and didn't this time, except for the last fifteen minutes or so.  I suspect the story line is similar, except the three Aussies in question were convicted, and two executed.  Sounds like it was a political decision during the Boer War!  Send young men (and women) off to war, against irregular, guerrilla forces, and then, when they try to defend themselves against who knows who, accuse them of murder and punish them...so the "head shed" can be self-righteous!    As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us!"

Godspeed to those in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! Godspeed to those in the path of bad weather!