Guns of the Darksiders

[Fingers McGee]

Thought you'd all like to see my latest acquisitions.  The Case and upper pistol are new, the accessories and lower pistol I've had a while:


The case is a Second Generation Colt French fitted presentation case with the Colt logo on the lid.  The top 1860 is a 1985 vintage Uberti Stainless Steel 1860 Army that was imported by Allen Firearms, Sant Fe, NM.  The bottom 1860 is a 2nd Gen made in 1982 and the accessories are all 2nd Gen Colt.  

One thing I noticed right away about the pistols was the Uberti is highly polished while the Colt is matte finished.

I'd love to have another Allen Firearms 1860 to put in this case.  And would like to find more of the stainless Allen Firearms Ubertis that were imported.  They made five different models between about 1982 and 1985.  I've got 2 - the 1851 Navy & 1860 Army - and would love to find the other three - 1861 Navy, Pocket Navy, and Pocket Police.

Anyone know where there are any - please let me know.

Fingers

PS - Thanks Madcratebuilder for the case and natchezjim for tfinding the pistol for me.

[Wolfgang]

Hadn't visited this thread in a long while.   I used to be on "dial up connection" and the pictures took forever.  Have high speed wireless now.  Lot of great shootin' irons.  Thanks to all for posting 'em up.  

Can't really figure how to put the pictures in here.  But click the link and see a few Remingtons of mine and some other shootin' stuff as well. . . .
www.drburkholter.com/cf6.html

Good shootin', . . .  

[Marshall John Joseph]

I have had this shotgun for several years and decided to bring it out and shoot it with the "magic black".  It is an original U.S. Arms, Made in Belgium, laminated steel barrels, backlock action external hammer locks, and side lever opening.  It is as tight as a drum and the bores are shiny as new; exterior of the barrels has a beautiful brown patina with the curl in the steel.  Stock is walnut with some curl; checkering is there but is somewhat flat pointed, no cracks in the wood.  Barrels are 28", 2 1/2" chambers.

The most I can find out about it is that in the late 1800's and early 1900's, many U.S. companies imported Belgium made shotguns under their own labels.  I read about U.S. Arms somewhere, but like a dummie, did not download and save the info.  Any info some of you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Am going to load Magtech brass shells with BP.  Since the Magtechs are longer than 2 1/2, do I have to trim them? [Actually they are designed for 2 1/2" chambers, so I found out] They slip right in easily.  I slid a 2 3/4 Winchester shell in to test chamber length, and you can feel a "bump" when it reaches about 2 1/2 inches.  Not so with the brass.   I am in no hurry.  The snow here in Virginia has brought everything to a slowdown and I'm bored.

Thanks for letting me share.

MJJ

[litl rooster]

Beautiful "shotty"...feel yer pain with the snow

[Dirty Brass]

Now that there is a pretty specimen! It looks remarkably similar to a JPMoore & Sons I picked up years back as a wall hangar, but yours is in beautiful condition. Nice!

[Marshall John Joseph]

I have cabin fever due to all this snow, so I went to Borders Books to hang out while my wife ran some errands. Got a short "edumacation" by reading Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values.

Seems that Garrison Joe (on the Wire) was right on the money, "Sounds like a Belgian trade gun, imported by H. and D. Folsom Company of New York, imported and sold as a fairly cheap double in the 1890s." It seems that H. and D. Folsom Co. imported Belgium shotguns and had the distributor's names put on them, for instance Sears, Montgomery Wards, a particular hardware store, or department store. H. and D. also imported them with their own "brand", U.S.Arms Co., for distribution to stores not wanting their name on them.

Many of these shotguns were "cheap" in the respect that their target buyer were hunters - field/utility grades, but were still well built and not "cheap" in quality. Others were an attempt to duplicate features of higher priced shotguns, to which prices reflected those features, eg. higher grades of wood, engraving, or "damascus patterns". Fladerman's also goes into different features - pros and cons. Backlock actions, for example, may have been less expensive, but not necessarily inferior. Side levers were just one "style" that gave way to top levers, again not necessarily "cheap", just different.

The term "damascus" is given to the type of manufacture - patterns and material varied. This was how barrels were made with the technology of the time - again not cheap, suitable for the BP cartridges of the time. They just could not handle the pressures of the new smokeless powder.

Obviously, quality was dependent on the manufacturer/supplier to H. and D. It was noted that H. and D. Folsom Company of New York was one of the largest importers of shotguns in the U.S., especially from Belgium, to which many were utility grade. Lack of basic quality, like delamination of barrels, would not allow the company to continue selling the quantities they sold. Plus Sears and Wards had a reputation to uphold.

From descriptions of features, my shotgun was very probably manufactured prior to 1900. The fact that it has lasted all these years and still locks and operates as it should attests to it's quality - for its application - BP. NEVER SHOOT SMOKELESS IN THESE SHOTGUNS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT APPLICATION. Flayderman's states that some of the best manufacturers continued with damascus barrels FOR BLACK POWDER into the 1900's, even as fluid steels became common.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I had to write it down before I forgot. 

Thanks to you all. 

MJJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

That sure is a fine lookin' under-lever double, pard!

Have fun shootin the black stuff.  You'll look like you stepped right out of an old photo!

[Border Ruffian]

My 1851 Navy and Confederate gun belt.

[Abilene]

Howdy Mr. Ruffian,
you sure that is a '51?  Sure looks like a round barrel and it's a little hard to tell from the pic but looks kind of like a rebated cylinder as well.

[Dr. Bob]

Abilene,

Ya know, they make a .44 cal. with those features that they call a 51 Navy.  Kinda like calling a pig a cat!      Nothing wrong with the gun, just what they call it!

[Abilene]

I hear ya, Dr. Bob, but all the .44 "1851's" I've seen (Piettas) either have octagonal barrels, or the round barrel models still have the flat-sided back end on the barrel, not the curved '60 or '61 style back end.  Perhaps some other manufacturer makes one, though.  Hey, Border Ruffian, is that Navy a .36 or .44?  Manufacturer?  Just curious.  Looks nice, anyway.  Thanks.

[Fingers McGee]

It's definitely an 1860 Army.  Backstrap is blued, not brass, grip is longer than an 1851, cylinder looks to be rebated, and the  frame looks to be cut.

FM

[Border Ruffian]

My 1851 Navy and Confederate gun belt.

Holy Cow!!! That is my 1860 Army!!  I copied the wrong image code!!!! Gettin old ain't for sissies!!!!

[Border Ruffian]

This should be my 1851 Navy

[Fingers McGee]

Gettin old ain't for sissies!!!!

I can identify with that. 

[Fingers McGee]

Latest acquisition, blank cylinder Uberti L&R made in 2007. 



Now have a pairof them.  The other one is from 1977.  Both of them get shipped off to the gunsmith to get 6 more bolt cuts on the cylinders, defarbed, and remarked like this original Augusta revolver from 1864.

[Border Ruffian]

This should be my 1851 Navy

It's a .36 Pietta, late 1990s vintage.

[Seamus]

Howdy Lads,

Here is a link to pictures of my .577 Snider Carbine.  This is the Britich version of the Springfield Trapdoor. 

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Britain/PortugeseSnider.htm

You should see the smoke & hear the roar when it lets loose with 60g of 1f under a 500+ grain conical.  It really makes the targets ring.  My favorite Plainsman firearm.

Seamus 

[Fingers McGee]

Latest acquisition.   US Army Tribute Colt Model 1851 Navy Percussion. Part of the American Military Colt Collection, that was produced in 1984 by the American Historical Foundation.  There were U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, and U.S. Marine Corps tribute revolvers also produced as part of the collection all of which were made from 2nd Gen Colts.  This one is made from a C Series 2nd Generation Colt Percussion revolver that was made in 1977 and is #20 of 100 Army Tribute revolvers produced.  Gun is gold plated except for the screws, wedge, trigger and hammer. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Fingers, that sure is easy on the eyes!  That's outstanding!  Congratulations!  Next question:  what load will you be using?  The 25 grain full-power with conical, or the lighter 17-20 grain loads with the roundball?