shotgun "shucking" question

[JL McGillicuddy]

OK, maybe someone here can help me figger out what is going wrong for me. 

I am shooting a double barrel and am having trouble getting it to turn loose of empty hulls when I shoot BP.  When I shoot that other heathen powder, it spits them right out with a flick of my wrist.

The gun is a Remington/Baikal Spartan 220 that has been gone through by a local gunsmith.  The chambers have been polished and the mouths funneled as well as the springs adjusted and the open angle widened.

When I clean it after a match, I clean it spotless and then run a patch soaked in Ballistol down the bore to help it tolerate BP fouling. 

When I am shooting BP shells, I have to manually remove the hulls every time after the first shot of the day.  Sometimes, even on the first shot I have to remove the hulls by hand.  I had thought it was a problem with the Federal Gold Medal hulls that a pard loaded for me, but I had the same trouble with the AA hulls that I loaded myself this weekend.

I tried borrowing another shooter's shotgun brush this weekend and hitting the chambers with it between stages, but no change. 

Any ideas??  It is hard to work up any kind of shotgun run when I keep having to stop what I am doing to get the hulls to clear the gun. 

Thanks!
Jack Lee

[Noz]

Look for sharp edges around the chamber mouth and extractor. I have a 10 ga bore mop on a short rod at my gun cart. Wipe the chambers will ballistol soaked mop after each stage.
I also shoot only 8 point crimp shells, Remington STS or Winchester AAs. I think they extract much easier than 6 points.

[Pettifogger]

What load and type of powder are you using?  (Real BP or a sub.)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I use an old Tula/Baikal TOZ 66 hammer gun.  They have chromed bores, so I haven't thought of polishing the chambers.  By serendipety, I discovered that ANY Remington-Peters shell shucked out like it was greased.

My favorite is the NITRO-27.  The gold colour makes 'em gleam like brass!

[Tensleep]

J L M,

You have two of the very best double shooters and double mechanics there are in Red River Ray and Three Cut, ask those boys.

[Paladin UK]

FWIW..........

My pard Ned had the same problem at the last shoot we had.....

He had ta lend his scattergun out as there wuz a shortage of smokepoles, now normally he shoots BP loaded in Magtech brass shells and NEVER has a shucking problem !! But this shoot some other shells were used (`bout 3 different flavours ) by different pards,and they nearly ALL got stuck, `ceptin Neds Brass!!

Go figure!!..... I might be an idea ta try some brass shells

Paladin (What uses Brass shells in his sweet 16s  ) UK

[JL McGillicuddy]

Nozzle Rag,  I would think that if burrs were causing the problems, I would see it on the smokeless, too.  I will run over it and see if I can find any burrs.  I was thinking it might be hulls, too.  That was why I switched to AA hulls and put the Federals my pard loaded for me aside. 

Pettifogger, the loads I shot this weekend were all Pyrodex RS under 1 1/8oz shot in AA hulls.  The majority were 60 grainers, but I had a half dozen each of 72s and 68s.  All were the same as far as needing to be pulled out by hand.

Tensleep, it was Three Cut that tuned my double.  It runs like greased lightening with that heathen stuff, but won't toss a shell on BP.  It was Ray that lent me his brush to try.  I will check with the fellers when I see 'em again and see if they can offer any thougts, but this only happens with BP, so I didn't think they would have a lot of experience to offer. 

PUK, I ain't got the bread to go over to brass at this time, but I have thought about it.  I am planning to try roll crimping here in the near future and see if that does anything for me other than look purty.  (Gotta get the tools to do it with.)

One other thought I had was that perhaps I need to have the chambers wiped dry before the match and not leave them wet with Ballistol.  Any chance that Ballistol is causing the hulls to stick??

[Tensleep]

I doubt that the Ballistol is causing the problem.

Three Cut did my action job too, I use the same brush that 3 Cut, RRR and Splinter use, then I wipe with Ballistol.

ALL my hulls are Remington STS loaded with 3.1cc of 777 and 1oz of #8 shot with an 8 pt crimp.

I have no "shucking" problems.

[Pettifogger]

"Pettifogger, the loads I shot this weekend were all Pyrodex RS under 1 1/8oz shot in AA hulls.  The majority were 60 grainers, but I had a half dozen each of 72s and 68s.  All were the same as far as needing to be pulled out by hand."

I use real BP and all the subs at different times.  Main reason I was asking is that I have the worst luck with APP.  It leaves dust in the chamber and nothing will shuck.  I have been using RS for quite a while now and only use it in the shotgun.  The last two cases of Winchester AAs I bought both caused problems.  I usually practice with smokeless and then pick up all the once fired hulls and load them with BP or a sub.  Winchester changed to a two piece hull quite a while ago and they usually work pretty well.  What I have found on the last few cases is that for some reason (change of plastic formula?) when they fire the crimp spreads out like it should, but then it doesn't retract enough to shuck properly.  The crimp pedals stay in contact with the chamber and I have to pull a lot of them out by hand.  Switched to Remington STS, which is still a one piece hull and is made from slightly thicker plastic, and the problem went away.  Right now I am using up all the new AAs in my 87s and using STS's in the doubles.  Oh, one other thing, when you say you are using 60 grains of RS is that actual weight or 60 grains volume equivalent to BP?

[JL McGillicuddy]

The 60 grains is by volume.  Ye olde trusty Lyman 55 BP measure.

I have some STS hulls, maybe I will try loading some of those and see if they work better.

[Cactus Cris]

Let me offer this--I used to shoot loads with 75-80 grs. of 3f real bp- 1 1/8 oz shot in my AA hulls.  They sometimes didn't shuck out.  Found out that the hulls were swelling  quite a bit past the brass ends.  Cut my loads down to 45 gr. - 1 oz. shot & problem went away.  Heavy loads were using the Win red wads with the bottoms cut off, leaving just the shot cup & the lighter ones were using the Win grey wads.  Have no problem with knock downs either.  Load 28 gr. 1oz loads for Grand Daughter to shoot & still no problem knocking down the plates.  So unless you are into banging your body with them heavy loads- try lightening the load.  BTW- load on a MEC.

[Jefro]

STS hulls are the best. I've never shot Pyrodex so can't help there. I do use Shutzen ffg, either 45gr 7/8oz, or 55gr 1 1/8oz with plastic wads. Sometimes after three or four stages I'll wipe the throats with a piece of rag sprayed with Balistol. I also use a Mecjr. Three Cut has also done his magic on a couple of mine. Good luck.

    Jefro

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I prefer STS hulls. They are the most slippery that I have found. The Ballistol is not causing a problem, I usually have a thin coating of Ballistol in my barrels and chambers at the start of a match.

[hellgate]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether you are using a shot cup or not. I found when I loaded some wide pattern loads for taking down doubles I used a load without a plastic shot cup and the crimp got smoothed out more and I had to pick the shells out by hand whereas  the shot sleeved loads all shucked out fine. It is my opinion that the shot column ironed out the crimp a little more and that caused them to stick in the chambers. I have no problems with any Remington case or WW AAs. However the STS are the best shuckers.

[Dick Dastardly]

One thing that helps me get the hulls out of my 311s, notorious for hanging onto empties, is to wipe my loaded shells with a rag with some Ballistol on it.  Not a wet wipe, just enough to leave a slight film.  Works for me. . .

DD-DLoS

[Adirondack Jack]

I stumbled into a supply of STS once fired hulls.

Here's the drill:

45 grains WEIGHT (a 60 grain load) of 777, (pyrodex sucks) using fiber wads (nitro card and 1/2" filler)and 1 1/8 ounces of shot I get a perfect crimp with the MEC jr and no shell bulges.

My chicom sxs I polished the chambers years ago using a wad of paper towel and a split dowel in the drill motor and polishing compound.  I just knocked the tops off the rings in the chambers, not looking for a glass smooth finish.

I shuck em by holding the barrels of the hammer double nearly perfectly horizontal when I break open the gun (pull the gun down, leave the barrels level) and a quick flick of the gun as it opens, jerking the barrels straight back).  I do NOT hold the muzzles up, as that seems to cause more frequent hanging of shells.  I DO make sure my extractor mechanism is clean and well-oiled so it will assist in hiking the shells rearward as I pop the gun open.

  The empties almost always fly right past the crook of my elbow just like brand new factory smokeless sts shells, even on the last stage of the day.  I do carry a split dowel with a bit of rag secured with stout thread wound around it in my cart in case I need to swab chambers with water, but normally I get by without doing so.

[JL McGillicuddy]

I have been looking at going over to roll crimping for 12 gauge anyway, so I guess this is a good excuse. 

So how are you guys that are roll crimping trimming your hulls?  Are you only buying new hulls or are you hand trimming once fireds?  Is anyone using one of the trimming tools or is there another method that you are using?

JLM

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here's a recent thread that might shed some light.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,21004.0.html

See my post on the JAM -ROLL about half way through page one.

I use a piece of 1 inch white plastic pipe cut off so that a 12 gauge shell protrudes just enough to cut off with a box cutter.  BRI sells a jig a ma thing to do the same thing.  DD has a band saw set up with a jig to cut them off with one swipe

[Fingers McGee]

I've found that STS and Nitro Gold hulls will fall out of a double without much assistance.  Leastwise that has been my experience with a Liberty II, Biakal box lock, Stevens 311, and an old 1889 Remington.  Shells loaded with ffg APP or ffg Goex; fiber wads or plastic wads; charges from 50 to 70 gr and loads from 7/8 to 1 1/8 oz.  Once fired work the best; but, I can generally get three loading on an STS before they get burned enough to be balky.