Need some more Dragoon help

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Guys,

I took my 3rd Model Dragoon out for a run & it's a blast 

I've busted my gun hand up so to shoot I'm only using 35grn fffg & it's very comfortable to shoot. Now the question I have for you guys is what are the squared trigger guards on the Dragoon like when fired I will more than likely have to shoot reduced loads for quite some time they tell me & it appears that I have the last 3rd model Dragoon here in Australia I have to get another Dragoon within a month as my permit runs out & the only other Dragoon is a Whitneyville with the squared T/G. just need to know do I have to worry about the squared T/G when I'm using a reduced load ?

Beretta Australia is very slow to get Uberti's in to this country & a friend had to wait 18 months for a 38-40 S.A. revolver & I don't want to wait that long for a Dragoon I like the look of the Whitneyville Dragoon but the T/G worries me a little bit.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Take care & all the best from Australia.

Lightning 

[Capt. Augustus]

I never had problems with my Walker with the square trigger guard.  You shouldn't have any problem especially with reduced loads.  I usually shot 40 grains of 2F in my Walkers.

[hellgate]

I am not sure but the Whitneyville model MAY have a different mainspring like the Walkers which is a bear to disassemble. The Dragoons (1st, 2nd, & 3rd) have frames and grips that look more like the later Colts with flat edges rather than the rounded forward edge as seen in the Walkers & Whitneyville. All I remember is when I took apart my two Walkers to clean up, deburr, & lube the innards, I had to use a pair of vise grips to pre-clamp the mainspring to get it back into place. It was a mother bear to do and i swore I'd never try that again. I suspect the non Whitneyville guns are easier to take apart.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I have a Colt, 1st Model, 2nd Generation Dragoon with the funky mainspring (ala Walker) and the square triggerguard.  I LOVE the look. 

... You shouldn't have any problem especially with reduced loads ...

Cpt. Augustus hit the nail on the head.  I shoot mine with 43-45 grs. and the squared t-guard bites my hand if I'm not careful!  Sometimes even if I AM careful.

Did I mention that I love the look? 


By the way, I had no problem with the mainspring removal or re-assembly.  It may be a Colt thing.  (Yes - I KNOW some parts come from Italy, but the frame is American.)(Or so I've heard.  )

[piebiter]

As to handling, I have no problem with the square trigger guard.

[Deadguy]

I use 200 grain Lee REAL bullets over 45 grains FFFG in my 2nd Model Dragoon with the square triggerguard in matches, and I never have a problem with it "biting" me.

[Noz]

I had a Super Black Hawk 44 mag Ruger that bit me regularly(has the square trigger guard) with magnum loads. Loads in the 44 Special range were no problem. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are trying for the "Ultimate Warthog" medal.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

.... I wouldn't worry about it unless you are trying for the "Ultimate Warthog" medal.

There's a medal?

 

Then, according to the pards I shoot with, I must be in the running.

Nuttin' OVER safe, published loads (see below), but I FILL my cases with BP.  This load of powder I'm using (Goex 3F) will actually measure out to about 37 grs. in my 45 Colt cases - and that's WITH a .030" wad and only compressed about .100".  I think I could EASILY get 40 grs. into the case if I wished to use a drop-tube and compress the powder .250"; maybe I could squeeze in MORE than 40 - but I won't.  40 grs. of 3/2F pushin' a 255 gr. bullet was the original load the Military used - I don't feel the need to "re-invent" a round that has proven itself since 1873.


I could, however squeeze about 10-12 grs. more in my Dragoon - IF needed, but there IS a point where "enough is enough." 



WARTHOG disclaimer:   Unlike what SOME believe, the term "warthog" doesn't mean someone who attempts to use high pressure, over-the-top unsafe loads.  We simply shoot our guns with the Maximum (safe) loads to replicate full-power factory loadings.  No "Bunker-Busters."

For example, if I shot 38 spl. rounds, I'd use a full case of BP or the maximum safe, published load of smokeyless powder. 

Thank you very glad.

Jeff  "Steel Horse Bailey"


Keep yer powder dry !

[hellgate]

My Bailey,
It is my understanding that the original 45LC load was based on the old Dragoon load of 40grs powder (don't know the lead size) but it was too much for the soldiers to accurately fire so they (the Army) dropped the load down to 30 grs powder which was much easier to handle. The old balloon head cases held more powder than the modern solid head cases of today. So, if yer gittin' 37 grs into the 45s you are truly Warthoggin' it. Enjoy the splendor!

[Flint]

Considering the weight of a Walker or Dragoon, a full charge of BP will not recoil hard enough to make the squareback triggerguard a problem.  I've shot them with a full load, and they don't hurt.  Fire and smoke, and a loud boom, but not a biter.

Now, a Ruger SBH is another case entirely......

[Deadguy]

I can vouch for the Ruger biting, even without the square triggerguard!  I have fired full-power published "Ruger only" loads, 350 grain bullet at about 1300 fps in my .45 Colt Blackhawk, and it felt like slamming my hand in a car door.  ACtually, I think slamming my hand in a car door might feel better.  Anyways, it was good in a sick way.   

[Steel Horse Bailey]

My Bailey,
It is my understanding that the original 45LC load was based on the old Dragoon load of 40grs powder (don't know the lead size) but it was too much for the soldiers to accurately fire so they (the Army) dropped the load down to 30 grs powder which was much easier to handle. The old balloon head cases held more powder than the modern solid head cases of today. So, if yer gittin' 37 grs into the 45s you are truly Warthoggin' it. Enjoy the splendor!

I'm not an expert, mind you.  From what I heard, the max load for the Dragoons was 50 grs., but that doesn't mean that 50 was the standard or recommended load.  But, like you, I have heard that the original load was to mimic an older load.

They did drop the 40 grs. because of soldierly recoil and such issues, but I think they first dropped the load to 35 grs.  Long about the time the S&Ws were adapted with their load and all the ammo problems they encountered due to the 2 different round OALs is when I heard they dropped the load yet again, and made it the 30 grs. that Hellgate mentioned.

Yes, the balloon head cases will hold more, but as you suggested - I DO have loads (pun intended) of fun Warthoggin'!  At our last SMVS shoot we had several visitors.  When I started shooting, I understand some of the visitors were scrambling for earplugs!  (our rules require eye protection and earplugs are recommended STRONGLY!)

It is splendiferous!

[Dick Dastardly]

FWIW, my brace of ROAs has brass back straps and square back trigger guards.  I shoot the Ruger C&B cylinders with a well compressed load of FFFg under a DD/ROA 210 grain bullet seated just so it will clear the frame.  No worries.

I also shoot strongly compressed charges of FFFg under PRS 250 grain Big Lube™ bullets in 45 Long Colt brass via the Kirst Konverter cylinders.  That's as strong as a bp load gets in 45 Long Colt and it doesn't bite me.

So, it depends on your hands and your grip.  I'd not fear shooting a Dragoon with a square back trigger guard.  Load to your comfort level and have at it.  Enjoy the smoke.

DD-DLoS

[Paladin UK]

Fer SHB........

It is splendiferous!

Sounds ta me a bit like............   Bloody Brill!!

Paladin (who`s feelin....splendiferous!! ) UK

[Marshal J.D.Lightning]

Thanks for all the info Guys, just ordered the Whitneyville Dragoon to go with my 3rd model 

Should have it next week & then I'll be able to show you some pics 

Thanks again.

Take care, have fun & shoot that black stuff 

Lightning

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Fer SHB........

Sounds ta me a bit like............   Bloody Brill!!

Paladin (who`s feelin....splendiferous!! ) UK

It's splendiferously bloody brill! (iant)

[Smokin Gun]

I'd jus' fill them Dragoon Chambers 50gr each holy black press them .457 balls in, and fire one first, see if it hurt and if it hurt is it bleedin' ? If it is wipe it off and long as yur Dragoon held together shoot the other five.  If you can do that you might be a Warthog.


SG