44's

[Crazeyiven]

I would appreciate any clarification that could be provided as to the relationship between the 44special, the 44 colt and the 44 Russian.

I have read several articles and both the 44 colt and the 44 Russian are related to the 44 special.

Any information or a pointer to information will be appreciated.

Thanks

David

[Two Flints]

Is this of any help?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_171_28/ai_n6123166

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294942

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/forgotten_44s/index1.html

http://www.darkcanyon.net/The%2044%20Special%20by%20Elmer%20Keith.htm

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have just completed a review of the origins of the early .44s.  My conclusion is that the 44 S&W American and the 44 Henry center fire are both independantly conceived cf versions of the 44 Henry rf.

The 44 Colt seem to come to a similar solution, but via a different route.  The 44 Colt and its twin, the 44 Remington, are Frankford Arsenal developements whereby a new cartridge, centerfire being preferred from the beginning, was designed to fit into an existing 44 Cap and Ball cylinder with the absolute minimum of re-working.  The dimensions are remarkably similar to the 44 Henry.  In front of me is an article in The Shootist, March/April 2000, by Bob Edwards, page 36.  He noted the similarity to a 44 Henry rf in his collection.  Others have made the same observation.

Soo Close!  But, different.

Now, take the lineage to the next step.  44 Henry rf is altered to the center fire 44 S&W American at the behest of the Ordnance Board in 1870.  Shortly thereafter, the Russians want boatloads of revolvers, but want them with an inside lubricated bullet.  The simplest solution is to ream out the cylinder just a bit for a slightly larger case that can accomodate the same bullet diameter inside the neck. Now we have the 44 Russian. Later, when smokeless powder became popular, in the 20th Century, the case was lengthened, as the 44 Special, to prevent the new, higher pressure ammunition from being chambered in older cylinders.  Finally, Elmer Keith inspires the .44 Rem. Magnum! The last three are a family, one taller than the next, and a shorter one can fit a longer chamber.

Every story has a wild card.  In this case there is the "MODERN" 44 Colt.  While the original had a itsi-bitsi rim and a heeled bullet, the modern version uses slightly altered .44 Russian / Special cases and a .429 barrel to take advantage of standard modern .44 bullets in .429.

Got that?

[Crazeyiven]

Two Flints-

Thanks for the links. 

They are close but I did not see any reference to the 44 colt (one had a picture of one in a group of "old 44's".

Seems like I've seen something that ties all three together.

Thanks for you help and quick response.

David

[Crazeyiven]

Sir Charles-

That is what I was remembering plus some additional.

I just received an e-mail that contained the link below:

http://www.sixguns.com/range/cartridgeconversions.htm

I think this is what I had read.  Your's adds more color (history).

Was thinking along the lines of Spencer, 44 Russian, 44colt from 44 special ... a 44 special Spencer?

Probably too much time on my hands today and too long since I've been shooting!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

David

[French Jack]

The .44 Colt came about when the conversions were in vogue.  The head size is the minimum that can be used to allow for rechambering most of the cap & ball cylinders.  The larger head size of the other .44's, will not allow more than 5 rounds to be chambered.  The same holds true today.  The fact that the cartridge loaded utilizes a .44 bullet does not alter the size.  Either a hollow base bullet that will expand and work in the oversize .45 caliber cylinder throats and barrels or a heeled bullet that is a nominal .45 diameter ahead of the case is needed to work effectively in conversions using original cylinders and barrels.  Modern replicas such as the ones marketed by Cimmaron and Taylor's to name a couple, use cylinders and barrels sized to use ordinary .44 bullets.

Remington and Colt conversions from original revolvers require a larger diameter cylinder to accomodate 6 cartridges with rims larger in diameter than the .44 Colt.  Such originals are not likely to allow larger cylinders to be used.

I load and shoot .44 Colts in several revolvers, both conversions and revolvers chambered for them as well as for .44 Specials, and .44 Magnums.  In the conversions which use the original or a replacement cylinder, I use hollow base bullets cast from a Rapine mould. 

[Crazeyiven]

French Jack-

Thanks for the information.

So, inasmuch as you shoot 44 colt, 44 special and 44 mag, let me ask this.  In its modern day format, can you shoot 44 colt, 44 russian and 44 special from a revolver chambered for 44 special?

Thanks again,

David

[French Jack]

Ivan--- Yes.

[Crazeyiven]

French Jack-

Thanks for the information!

David

ps-  Also, thanks to everone else who has helped!