MK-III Range Test ... 600yds

[Ranch 13]

  Well Dick just how big is that bullseye then. The picture is pretty crappy, what with the ruler being all out of focus and all, besides making the bullseye look pretty fuzzy.

[Dick Dastardly]

Due to rain, the board is warped.  Limitations on the size that this wire supports prevents larger file sizes.  That bullseye is close to Seven inches.  There are Nine rounds in or touching the black.  There are Three outside the black.  That's a Twelve shot string without cleaning.  The total group size is around Ten inches.  That's about Two MOA and about as good as I can see.  I intend to get a Malcomb scope and may be able to do better.  Usually I can hit what I can see, but my eyes aren't improving.  There are an additional Three rounds in the lower right hand corner.  Those are sighters.  They were shot first.  The sight was adjusted and the Twelve shot group was shot next.  I was pleasantly surprised when I approached the target after the sight change to learn that I'd made a good guess at the setting change.

Since I don't have a spotting scope yet, I have to get on my Three Wheeler Honda Big Red and ride out across the marsh to view the target.

I think that the important thing here is to know that the bullets were NOT unstable.  For them to expand to over Three foot patterns in another 50 yards defies logic.  The area I have to shoot long distance at is now being used for deer bow hunting.  I need to get to either Racine County Line or Winnequah to shoot long distance now.  I'll post results when I  do.

Now, let's see your results and data please.

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

Gentlemen - whether the group is for real or not ... the target is not a real target with actual bullet holes.

Here's what a Standard NRA Small Bore 100yd Target looks like with 8" black (7ring -X) and what ANY real bullet holes look like upon impact.  Bullets tear paper like a bursting star unless they are wad cutters and this is not a wad cutter bullet:


And this is a Stanard NRA MR1C 600yd Target looks like with 36" black (7 ring - X) - 5 7/8" bulleseye:

Lift the patches off and the bullet holes look exactly like the holes on a 100yd target

And I or others are not able to focus on this small black circle for accuracy on a target with iron sights from 550yds that is 7" in diameter, with no additional black target diameter... to produce a group this small.  If the bullet holes are real - why do they look as though they imprinted on the paper with a pencil eraser coated with black paint?  Plus if 2 or more bullets touch they tear the paper and there are no tears between the 2 holes!


Dick, if this target was on the Myth Busters Show - It's Busted because IMHO it is not a Real Target!  If it is a real POI target, let's see a closer picture of the bullet holes

PS:  I have produce real targets at 600yds with many different recipes and mine aren't even close to the picture that you posted - especially with number of shot strings that I did compared to your twelve

[john boy]

And Gentlemen, I forgot to add:  When a bullet hits a paper target ... it creates a hole through the paper.  I do not see ANY bullet holes on this target - just round black circles!

And Dick, I know your photographic skills are substantially better than what you posted ... being a retired owner of a photographic studio business with high end cameras that have zoom lenses!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Heh Guys!

Lets wait and see what others can do~

[Ranch 13]

Due to rain, the board is warped.  Limitations on the size that this wire supports prevents larger file sizes.  That bullseye is close to Seven inches.  There are Nine rounds in or touching the black.  I think that the important thing here is to know that the bullets were NOT unstable.  For them to expand to over Three foot patterns in another 50 yards defies logic.  The area I have to shoot long distance at is now being used for deer bow hunting.  I need to get to either Racine County Line or Winnequah to shoot long distance now.  I'll post results when I  do.

Now, let's see your results and data please.

DD-DLoS

Well ok if that bull is 7 inches that's still a pretty dang good feat to see it well enough to shoot that type of group at the stated 550 yds thru iron sights.
As to the results I got from your bullet9 provided to me by someone else0, I've already posted those in this thread. As I stated I still have 20 left and will give them an honest try if and when someone posts some credible long range data that shows it to be worth the powder expenditure.

[Dick Dastardly]

The target isn't paper.  It's foamcore.  I don't have any fancy targets made of paper.

DD-DLoS

[Col. Cornelius Gilliam]

Howdy,

To give you some background, over the years I've competed in quite a few gong shoots with targets set up between 300yrds and 1,000yrds+.  I've used both 45-90 and 45-70 cartridges.  Due to range limitations for testing, I shoot (10)-shot groups at 200yrds for load development.  I've tried the Lyman 500gr (casts at 525gr) Govt RN, the Lyman 535gr Postell, several other misc designs/weights and recently a Brooks custom 535gr modified Lyman Postell.  I shoot all black powder, no duplexing.  All loads are chronographed with standard deviation and extreme spread recorded.

I've followed this thread and have a few observations:

1.  There are allot of existing bullet designs with proven track records that perform extremely well.
2.  All the bullets I have shot have adequate lube capacity using a blow tube between shots w/o wiping.
3.  Some bullets had to much lube capacity and shot better with only three of the four lube grooves filled.
4.  The idea of a "Big Lube" bullet requiring a duplex load is quite interesting when current bullet designs do not require it for good results.  Lube capacity is obviously not helping this bullet design perform better.
5.  A minimum of a 7" black bull's eye at 200yrds is required for me for repeatable, decent accuracy with iron sights.
6.  I can't even imagine seeing a 7" bull's eye at 600yrds, let alone using it as an aiming point with iron sights.
7.  For match use, long range shooting requires a bullet with low wind drift, and this design does not look like a low drift design.
8.  A very, very good, custom bullet mold from Brooks or Paul Jones for many very, very good, proven, existing designs is available for a very reasonable cost.
9.  I see absolutely no benefit this bullet offers over proven, existing designs, but I do see negatives.
10.  I have not personally seen a duplex load with as low of velocity standard deviation as a well developed all black powder load.  Velocity consistency is critical for true long range shooting (greater than 600 yrds)
11.  Not shooting at paper targets, instead makeshift foam??

[Dick Dastardly]

I invite any that care to supply them to send me some of those fancy targets made of paper.  Please number and sign them.  I'll shoot them and send them back to you.  Then, you may post photos of the targets and the data.

DD-DLoS

[Ranch 13]

I invite any that care to supply them to send me some of those fancy targets made of paper.  Please number and sign them.  I'll shoot them and send them back to you.  Then, you may post photos of the targets and the data.

DD-DLoS

Maybe as it's you that's wanting to promote your bullet, instead of us sending you targets, YOU might want to consider either sending folks bullets complete with load data, or consider loaning the mold out? Us sending you targets won't do much to proove how well your bullet preforms.

By the by Midway USA will sell you a package of 100 NRA F class targets for 40$. Might proove a good investment for someone wanting to sell a particular bullet mould.

[john boy]

Dick - here's the link to buy approved NRA targets for all distances and the price is C-H-E-A-P ... http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/highpower/

I have to agree with Ranch ... you designed the bullet molds and others are testing it for you.  If it was my design, I'd use regulation targets and be promoting the hell out of it ... if the bullet was a quality design .  At this juncture, it is not a quality design based on the number of rounds I have shot with it IMHO.  So, don't ask for NRA targets (signed and numbered) that you will shoot and send back. You do the testing and post the results and can the styrofoam ones that 'melted and floated away BS.

Also, let's step back ... I purchased nearly every bullet mold that you have produced; revolver and rifle caliber.  For the rifle bullets, there IS NO ONE that has shot them more then me and posted the results, especially the MK-II and III.  The Original Big Lube was a loser because the seated length was too long (max 53gr black compressed like a brick).  I proved that to you - not you saying you screwed up first.  Your reply was use it in a 45-90 or duplex it.  Hey, your peddling molds for BPCR bullets not bullets for duplex recipes which are illegal for any NRA silhouette match. 

As for the design quality of the MK-III, if you want others to test it for you ... make a post on the Shiloh Rifle forum and offer to send some bullets to several of the BPCR shooters that are top rated Masters and win matches at Raton and other sanctioned regional matches.  Names like Chilson - Lay - Roos - Bagwell - Theodore, etc.  If it is a magic bullet, your mail box will be flooded with orders.  If it is not - well, that's the end of that mold because they will spread the word

As far as posting targets go ... the name of the game is TRUST!