Modern Sunglasses and NCOWS

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

At the national Shoot this year, I noticed a lot of our members were wearing modern sun glasses and shooting glasses. With our emphasis on authenticity we need to change this, especially if you shoot the Originals category.

If you don't think modern sunglasses or shooting glasses look out of place while wearing your 19th century clothing,  just take a close look around the next shoot you attend.

You can have your eye glass prescription put in a 19th. century set of frames that can be purchased from River Junction Trading Company or, Fall Creek Sutlery for less then $25.00. There is a optometrist that lives in Shelbyville Indiana that will do it for you (I can't recall his name as of this post but I will try to find it and his address).

I think we (NCOWS) ought to have a discussion on the use of modern Sun glasses and shooting glasses to see if we can't find a better solution that is in line with our philosophy.....and still be safe, what do you think??

Bill

[J.R. Logan]

It is important to be Historically correct but it is more important for me to keep my eye safe from splatter.  I have not found a authentic set of glasses that provide good eye protection from the side.  I only have one set of eye's and I need them everyday can not take a chance just to look more authentic.

Just my feelings on safety.

J. R. Logan

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

It is important to be Historically correct but it is more important for me to keep my eye safe from splatter.  I have not found a authentic set of glasses that provide good eye protection from the side.  I only have one set of eye's and I need them everyday can not take a chance just to look more authentic.

Just my feelings on safety.

J. R. Logan

...

JR.....
Appreciate the input....I'm not proposing we do away with protecting our eyes....I would hope that we could put our heads together and come up with a way to protect our eyes other then using modern glasses.

I noticed too that once the shooting was over the sun glasses were continued to be worn??

Bill

[Delmonico]

...

JR.....
Appreciate the input....I'm not proposing we do away with protecting our eyes....I would hope that we could put our heads together and come up with a way to protect our eyes other then using modern glasses.

I noticed too that once the shooting was over the sun glasses were continued to be worn??

Bill

I'd say on the shooting line, wear good protection, once away from it, not needed, while on the topic, does anyone make flesh colored ear plugs, them orange ones really stick out in photos.

[French Jack]

Flesh colored earplugs are as close as your friendly Walmart Pharmacy.  They have quite a selection of the foam ones very reasonable--- something like 8 pairs in a package.  I keep some in the shooting box to hand out to anyone needing ear protection.

[Delmonico]

Flesh colored earplugs are as close as your friendly Walmart Pharmacy.  They have quite a selection of the foam ones very reasonable--- something like 8 pairs in a package.  I keep some in the shooting box to hand out to anyone needing ear protection.

Good to know, I've got a pair of flesh colored silicone ones I got somewhere back when the earth was still flat, have managed to hang on to them all these years.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

OCB,

I agree that modern glasses of any kind detract from the overall experience though recognize that we're issued only one set of eyes so it's a good idear to take care of them, one of those non-negotiable things. I've seen enough lead splash, seemingly more common with underpowered loads, to be a concern of getting some real ocular damage.

One of our Association pards has done a great thing with his period spectacles that I'll emulate next time I hit the range – PHP has fashioned leather side guards that slip on over the metal bows of his spectacles that provide side protection. This is an innovation that works in keeping the eyes safer and, though not documented as far as I know, is a great use of historic conjecture towards safety.

Now to get to something even closer to your goal of period eye protection, in using an item correct to the period (though an unlikely item to document) is the use of period goggles (shown and detailed below). This period avenue would likely provide as close equal protection to modern equivalents that you can find. Goggles of the type listed below are obviously not a 20th century innovation. These are not always very common to come across but you can find such at antique stores.



However, though the authenticity schtick is always the goal, eye protection is something that is a tough one to mandate even with period alternatives methinks and likely should not be – unless perhaps mandating goggles similar to those above to Originals only, for example. But take comfort in knowing that even with Originals class, what we do on the firing line is arguably not correct anyway – we can start with timers and stages in general for that one. So as you mention, after the shooting is when the history opportunities can really start anyway so the modern eye protection should be removed when no longer required toward that end.

This is a great subject and worthy of some good discussion.

And, in closing, as for hearing protection – nothing like a brace of empty .44 WCF cases to block the sound of gunfire. I've employed this technique many times but it blocks sound so effectively it's hard to hear anything at all...!

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I'd say on the shooting line, wear good protection, once away from it, not needed, while on the topic, does anyone make flesh colored ear plugs, them orange ones really stick out in photos.

Del........I agree 100%,......but there are enough modern glass frames made that could pass for 19th century glasses, with a little work, that give as much eye protection as some of the more outlandish sun glasses seen at the matches. The flesh colored ear plugs is something new to me, I didn't know they made them.....looks like I'm gonna have to stock up. As for wearing modern sun glasses after the shooting is done I don't understand...?

Bill

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

'Monterrey' Jack Brass.....
Good to see you back in circulation!! My intention was not to mandate any type of eye wear but to have a discussion and hopefully come up with some viable alternatives, like the item you've posted, and........at the same time discourage the modern sun glasses seen at a lot of the matches.

Bill

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

OCB - Still here but, alas, still far away from the guns for awhile longer.

I like your idear of modifying something modern that has a metallic frame, for example - certainly wrap around type plastic safety glasses would not be something to modify. Perhaps the period goggle illustration and description can lead to some sort of more acceptable hybrid safety googles. Definitely worth looking into. Perhaps this can be a contribution to your discussion as goggles such as those listed in the 1886 Peck & Snyder catalog is a period item and might be copied in some fasion at least in appearance.

Again, a worthy subject for thinking on.

Brass

[Dutch Limbach]

There is a optometrist that lives in Shelbyville Indiana that will do it for you (I can't recall his name as of this post but I will try to find it and his address).

I think we (NCOWS) ought to have a discussion on the use of modern Sun glasses and shooting glasses to see if we can't find a better solution that is in line with our philosophy.....and still be safe, what do you think??

Bill

OCB, That would be Dr. Ron McDaniel, P.O. Box 200, Shelbyville, IN 46176 (317) 398-0305. Last I heard his specialty was 18th Century eyewear, but the last time I ran into him was about 5 years ago so he may have something for the later part of the 19th Century.

For my two cents worth on the topic, I don't think modern safety or shooting glasses should be discouraged in the shooting area. Now away from the firing line the modern safety and shooting glasses can and should be put away. Also, I can't see telliing someone they can't participate in an NCOWS match because their prescription glasses aren't authentic.

I also think there are some other "unauthentic" things that should be tidied up before eyewear is made an issue. A few things that come to mind:

• Cell phones. I know there are some shooters in occupations that stipulate they have to have one with them. They have my pity. But the least they can do is set the phone to the silent (vibrate) alert, and move away from the firing area to respond to any incoming call.
• Plastic pop and/or water bottles. Pour it into a tin cup!
• Stainless steel and/or fast food coffee cups. Pour it into a tin cup!
• Filter cigarettes. Roll your own, smoke a pipe or cigar.
• The Weaver Stance.

It would be great if everyone could be in completely authentic eyeware, but glasses can be expensive. And at a time when gas is going for $4+ a gallon mandating authenticity in glasses will probably do more harm than good.

[Deadeye Don]

Dutch,  I like your observations.  I agree those things listed need to be dealt with.   I actually saw a couple of wrist watches at the national shoot.  I had to do a double take on those.   
As for the eye protection, I agree with JR Logan that our first concern is protecting our fellow shooters.   I also agree with Bill in that there may be some suggestions we can make for people who want to be a bit more authentic with regards to their eye protection.  (how is that for playing middle of the road?).   I actually recently purchase some wire frame glasses that have a prescription for distance.  I cant see distance with my right eye which is might sight eye of course.  I got the poly carbonate lenses put in along with the transition feature.  I like the look alot more than my wrap around safety glasses.  My new ones really dont protect from side splatter, but from what I have seen thus far, most of the splatter comes from head on unless of course you happen to be turned sideways at the time you are hit.   The biggest problem I see is cost.  Mine cost about $500.00.   If we could make options available to fellow NCOWS members of alternatives to eye protection but yet not make it mandatory then I think you might see alot of people taking advantage of the new ideas.   I think alot of us use what we can easily find and if we had other options available we might use them.

I will be going to Walmart to check out those flesh colored ear plugs too. 

Regards.  Deadeye.

[Pitspitr]

Copied from my responce to the same thread in the NCOWS CHAMBERS:

OCB
I shared your opinion until...

At the 2005 GAF Grand Muster at the KVC range at Garnett I was standing talking to Gripmaker wearing my period frames. As we were speaking Larry was staggered by splash that struck him in the neck, drawing blood. I couldn't stop thinking about what would have happened had that splash been a few inches higher and to the right. It would have taken my master eye out.  (Don, Larry and I were both standing sideways to the line while we were talking)

While I am more than happy to wear my gold frame period glasses while not near the firing line (I do this even at non-sanctioned and SASS matches), I will not risk my sight nor my hearing for the sake of historical accuracy.

Respectfully,

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Dutch....

Please go back and re read my posts...no where have I made the statement that period eye wear should be mandated to be worn by NCOWS members......this is just a discussion to maybe find something at least as good or better then the modern spectacles you see at our shoots.

For example:
The glasses in this photo are all modern manufactured except the pair on the lower left. These I picked up at a antique shop while at the KVC shoot last year.

The frames on the lower right I found at the dollar store for what else.......a $1.00, they are every bit as strong as the more expensive frames, they had them in amber (shown), dark blue and clear..... These two frames give almost a 100% eye protection and with a slight modification can be made to look like 19th. Century glasses just by removing the nose pads and plastic ear guards (or what ever those things are called?).

The frames on the upper left came from River Junction, I have my prescription in them but they offer only minimal eye protection.

The ones on the upper right are the ones I wear when shooting and cover my eyes 100%. They have progressive safety lenses in them and are expensive ($300.00) but I wanted something to protect my eyes whille shooting and still look period correct. These were purchased last year and are new manufactured. I need to remove the plastic and I will do so in a couple of days. I also plan ot have my prescription put in the frames on the lower left.

In the 1895 Sears catolog there are several pairs of glasses that look almost the same as the ones in the photos. One pair like the frames on the bottom are called "shooting glasses" and have added eye protection in the form of a web attached to each side of the lenses. They also come with amber or smoked lenses. I'll try to copy that page and post it here.

The bottom frames and the upper right arereally close to period correct and like I stated above can be made to look like 19th century eye glasses with very easy modification to the frames, and they will give you the same protection (with the proper lenses) that the modern shooting glasses do.

You just have to want to take the time to have them made...it'll add to your persona.

Pitspitr.....didn't see your post until I had this one posted. I know the feeling....I've been hit a couple of times myself. One of the reasons we get those ricochets is that some of us are shooting hard cast bullets and improper target angles, and aren't being called to task on it. With the side shields described above installed (and period correct), should reduce the possibility of getting hit in the eye. I don't think no amount of eye protection modern or otherwise will protect us from a direct hit in the face or eyes from improper type bullets or incorrect target angles.

Bill
Modern eye glasses (except the lower left antique frames), that can be modified to look 19th century.[/b]

[Books OToole]

Away from the firing line there really is no excuse for wearing modern eyeware.

I have a couple pair of period frames with my perscription lenses installed. [I and my wife are semi-retired and living on a fixed income  ]
I have even experimented with wearing them under my safety glasses while shooting, so I could see the sights.
It didn't help much, I still shot about the same.

Books

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Look Fellas....
We make the effort to buy the right guns, gear, accoutrments and some of us even take the time to build a persona/impression to go along with that effort. After all that work (and yes it does take time!) we need to take the extra step and get the proper eye wear.
Here we are all decked out in our 19th century finest...we've got a 30 page persona tucked under our arm just waiting for the unknowing to dare ask a question about what part of history we are portraying so we can whip out this impressive tomb and talk about the hours of dedicated work that we as "Mongrel Historians" have slaved over to tweek it to fine perfection.........

With that said........don't you think it looks kind of cartoonish or clownish all decked out in our best....wearing a pair of modern Rayban shooting glasses or copies of??

If you're in NCOWS strictly for the shooting and nothing else...then this topic really doesn't matter...does it??

JMHO

OCB

[Dusty Tagalon]

On the firing line, I wear safety galsses, away from the line, I wear period correct glasses. I purchased them at Walmart several years ago, & replace lenses as needed.

I have had a close call while wearing period glasses at the firing line, I was looking down watching the laod table, & I had some lead shot come in over the top, & strike my eye lid.

Dusty

[O.T. Buchannan]

I have several pairs of historically correct spectacles, and I wear them 100% of the time when attending events.  However, when I step to the firing line, I put on those big, bubble, wrap around plastic things.  I hate those things, but wear them on the firing line for safety.  I've found that they go on OVER period spectacles with NO issues.

When I step away from the firing line and/or the shooting is over, I take the plastic bubble things off and hide them away.  That's how I balance being historically correct, but taking the extra measure to be safe on the line. 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Here ya go..................

I found the perfect pair of safety glasses that should satisfy all the variety of tastes in NCOWS, only cost a buck at the dollar tree store.

Bill

[O.T. Buchannan]

I can't wait to get a pair of those!!!...

Back in the old days, we didn't wear these newfangled, plastic 'safety glasses'...but then again, the targets were so far away, 'splash back' wasn't an issue....

I attended a SASS match a few years ago, where the splatter was so bad, that several people were walking around bleeding (really).  That experience made me decide to start keeping a pair of the plastic bubble monstrosities in my saddlebags....

So, when folks start talking safety glasses, I know what they mean.  HOWEVER, away from the firing line, when the firing is done?  Correct spectacles are the way to go, and as Ottawa pointed out, they are NOT expensive.  You can get a pair of original frames for around $20 bucks or so in most antique shops.  Jas Townsend & Sons, along with River Junction Trade Co., have the correct (but heavier guage) pair for around $25 or so.  Whereas the originals are fragile, the repros by Townsend and River Junction are extremely rugged....I even use mine for several modern applications when I am doing something where I am afraid my modern (everyday wear) glasses will be broken.

At the same time, Dutch mentioned some other things that we ALSO need to watch... and some of these fixes are EASY....