Newbie question

[Avid Fan]

Hello Folks,
I'm new to CAS and black powder shooting. I just went to my first shoot a couple of weeks ago and had a great time. I LOVED the cap & ball guns I saw in action. I have a couple of questions on this:

• Is there a categorie which allows you to use one percussion pistol and one cartridge pistol?
• According to the rules, is a Lemat a legal main match revolver? I wasn't sure because of it's having a 9-shot cylinder. The rule book seems a little fuzzy in the wording.
• What sort of load is typical for a .44 cap & ball? Is there a max limit allowed at the shoots?

Thanks for any help on this,
Dave

[Pettifogger]

1.  No.  You would be put in a cartridge category.
2.  Yes.  Just load 5.
3.  Max limit is set by muzzle velocity.  A revolver load cannot excede 1,000 fps.  No real limit on BP.  Plenty of people shoot Walkers with 60 grains.  A more typical load is 25 or 30 grains.

[Avid Fan]

Cartridge category? So hypothetically, if I shot Traditional would they allow a cap & ball or is it cartridge pistols only?

[Cuts Crooked]

Cartridge category? So hypothetically, if I shot Traditional would they allow a cap & ball or is it cartridge pistols only?

You can shoot a C&B in any catagory you wish to compete in, except the frontier cartridge catagories.

[Black Powder]

Yep, mix & match.  I have a 60 Army c&b and a SAA replica in .45.  Not gonna win anything, but that's OK with me.  As you said, it's a great time.

BP

[Fingers McGee]

You can shoot a C&B in any catagory you wish to compete in, except the frontier cartridge catagories

Actually Cuts, you can use C&B revolvers in any category.  "Any main match revolver" is legal in all categories except Frontiersman and Modern.  Percussion and Adjustable or non-adjustable sights are the only discriminators.

Avid Fan - I know a few shooters that use combinations of C&B and cartridge revolvers in matches.  ROAs would put you in the Modern category.

[Avid Fan]

Thanks for the info. I know it seems a strange question but being new to this I'm still compiling my compliment of weapons. I think it would be cool to have a variety. Kind of going for the Josey Wales look.

[hellgate]

You can shoot C&B in the Frontier cartridge category AND USE TWO HANDS! Sometimes there are not enough participants in the FM class so they bump me up to Front. Cart. category. I started out in the "modern" category with a '61 Navy and a Ruger Blackhawk back in 1992. Also the Ruger Old Army is OK for Frontiersman if it is the model with fixed sights. The adjustable sighted ROAs are only allowed in the Modern category. I've never seen an adjustable sighted ROA at a CAS match yet.

[Cuts Crooked]

The adjustable sighted ROAs are only allowed in the Modern category. I've never seen an adjustable sighted ROA at a CAS match yet.

Wierd! I can reccommember wen they wuzn't nothing BUT adjustable sighted Roogers!

[hellgate]

I think the main reason they came out with the fixed sighted ROAs was for the CAS market. I kinda think they saturated it and have moved on to other products.

[Black Powder]

Thanks for the info. I know it seems a strange question but being new to this I'm still compiling my compliment of weapons. I think it would be cool to have a variety. Kind of going for the Josey Wales look.

I don't think it's strange at all.  Even if anybody did here, they wouldn't let on.    The other thing worth considering is  the historical perspective.  It's completely reasonable to imagine that it was quite common for people to upgrade and keep what they had, if it still worked.  If you get bitten by that lovable bug, Period Correct (PC), you can easily justify different side arms.  I can; that's why I'm going c&b + cartridge.  It's also because I couldn't afford then, or now, to buy a matched pair!

If you're thinking about representing  an era or area, ca. 1875-80, you can certainly see how maybe a CW vet headed out west, with either a '60 Army or Rem NMA (likely pickups, not issued), saved a few bucks and got a '66 carbine, maybe used.  Maybe or maybe not got settled any place, and made ends meet.  The new cartridge Colt was becoming not just the rage, but actually more accessible.  He saved, didn't drink or gamble it away, and got one of 'em maybe in the later 1870's.  It was a different caliber than his carbine, but he didn't see that as an issue.  He'd need a new holster and a belt with loops for those cartridges.  His old cartridge box was now on his belt and held both his paper cartridge and 44-40 ammo.  By now he'd cut the flap off the Army issue holster he had, and with his old c&b, his old holster would just slide over to the other side...

That's pretty much my comfort zone.  Mix & match is arguably more historically correct, if  that's your persuasion.  I've owned more than one car at the same time and more than one computer at the same time.  They worked concurrently, but they weren't identical.

A lot of the pace of your involvement is a combination of your patience and access to disposable funds.  For me, I'm patient and broke.  A no brainer.

My advice is to take a deep breath, make yourself at home here, and take your time.  Whatever you end up with will have been your decision alone anyway, but the more deliberate that decision is, the more satisfying it is to see it fulfilled.

It's a passionate "sport."  Don't be casual! 

BP

[Pappy Myles]

OK Pardners,

Here goes,

I have a pair of old model vaquers 45 colt, 1873 uberty 24", and a brand new TTN 12 gage.      Been using titegroop with lymans 250 grain fp mold.      I am seriously thinking about going to the dark arts.   My only hesitation is years and years ago, before CAS  (BC) I had a 1851 el chepo 36 cal in brass frame.    Had a ball with it and had no problem cleaning up with soap and water because the gun was dirt cheep.   

Now having spent 6 years of my life with Uncle Sam, I was brainwashed that water is a firearms worst enemy.  And I have lots of George's tied up in my roogers and my uberty in terms of smithing, etc.

I have some load data by reading others comments, my biggest issue is cleaning up after.    I normally clean the guns with hoppies #9 immediatly after the shoot with modern powder.    I use to clean up the cap & pall in the sink with warm water and soap.  I do understand hoppies #9 aint gonna cut it with the dark.

Thats my issue, I really dont want to dunk the guns in the bathtub to clean, or use the dish water.

So,   how does everyone clean up.?

I have about 20 bs of pyrodex RS that I have had from a shoot my club sponsered using muzzle loaders.

Thanks

[Ozark Tracker]

Ballistol,  I think you'll find most everybody using it,  mix it wth water and ya got Moose Milk.  spay a little on and it gets any black powder residue quick,  quicker cleanup than smokeless powder,
may not be able to find it local,  order from several sources,  Midway is where I get mine.

[Tequila Jim]

Hey Pappy, Hoppies makes a black powder solvent. Give it a try. Although Ozark
has it right, Ballistol is the most popular BP solvent going. Regards, Jim

[Ransom Gaer]

Pappy,

I use hot water and dish soap to clean my BP guns, as well as Windex with vinegar.  Both work and I have had no problems with rust or anything else.  With water the key is to get it to evaporate quickly and then oiling the gun as soon as you're done cleaning.  For lube I use Ballistol for most of the gun and Bore Butter for the inside of the barrel and the cylinder pin.  Like I said, I have had no problems.

I know the getting around the idea to use water is hard.  I had a hard time with it at first too, but I got used to it.

Ransom Gaer

[Pappy Myles]

Thanks for all the replys........

The roogers will be easy enough to clean up.

What do ya'll shoot for rifle?   Like I said, I got me a uberty 73.... How do you get the water out/clean / lube the area aound the chamber?     Do you take it apart?

Still got that ol grunt mentality, after shooting, clean it like I was heading for friday morning inspection.......

[Jefro]

Howdy Pappy, welcome the dark side. Lots of great advice here. One thing that helped me a bunch to get started is the "search" feature. I use it to help me find the specifics on any subject. I use it for BP clean up, reloading, favorite wad, firearms, loads......Check out the "Dark Arts" thread at the top of the page. You'll find out there are many different opinions and tips on each subject, weeding through it all to find what works best for you is part of the fun. Here's what works for me for BP clean up. I use Murphy's mix to clean with. Spray everything down with Murphy's, pull wet patch through bore and cylinders, out comes nasty black goo. Repeat out comes clean patch. Spray everything down and patch with Ballistol, wipe off excess, put in safe. I use Gun Butter on base pin, bushing, in action, on all moving parts. If I'm at home I'll use hot water on the cylinders to get rid of the goo, then the Murphy's and Ballistol . For rifle and shotgun I do basically the same thing. I finish up with a spray of Balistol, then a bore snake and wet Balistol patch.  Now I'm not claiming my method is any better than all the others, this is just what works for me. The one thing we all have in common is water. Murphy's mix is 1/3 alcohol, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap. The alcohol flash dries as you clean leaving a protective film of Murphy's. The peoxide and alcohol contain the water. A final wipe down with Balistol protects everything. Good luck on the path to darkness.

   Jefro,  Relax-Enjoy

[Black Powder]

I've done pretty much the same, but I don't have my lever rifle or SxS yet.  Mom always said that water & wood don't mix, so I've always taken the grips off my c&b and the barrel out of the musket before emersion in water.

Jefro's got a good point about using the search function.  Lots of folks have posted excellent advice previously and may not be aware that you're asking these questions as soon as you're hoping to get answers.  I do know that somebody posted a how-to on a lever gun, complete with a picture, noting how he had the gun upside down in a stand so the fluids would drain out and not collect in the action.

The other thing I learned (after the fact  ) was not to use gun oil that is used for new-fangle smokeless, at least if it's petroleum based.  Water & oil don't mix, the oil floats on the water and would trap any water underneath, potentially leading to rust.  We're not talking like automotive fender rust, but that in itself explains how and why water is a firearm's worst enemy.  I believe the final wiping with a squeezed out patch of Moose Milk in a bp firearm and you're good to go, as Jefro suggests.

I've never been exposed to the Friday morning inspection (and thanks to you for being there) and I would never suggest that you should compromise those standards.  Rest assured, you can apply the same discipline to cleaning bp as what was demanded of you in service.  Just a different technique.  Finish 'em off with some boiled linseed oil on the wood, and you'll pass inspection.  Note: the Uberti stocks have a high gloss finish and my musket doesn't; please wood workers, chime in if this is a bad idea on a finished stock.  You'll also find much discussion on refinishing those Uberti stocks here too!

Anyway, corrosion should not be a problem, and I think you may find that clean up & maintenance of bp firearms may be easier.  Many folks only take their guns apart once a year at the end of the season for a "thorough" cleaning.  I cannot imagine any bp enthusiast not being as deliberate in the care and feeding of their firearms as you are have been with your yours, and I've never heard anybody complain that it took longer, was more challenging, etc. 

BP