Possible new Category looking for feed back!

[J.R. Logan]

Howdy all I have a question.  Has any thought been given to a three gun category in NCOWS?  We have two, two guns Working Cowboy/Originals, and several four guns.  I am not one for a lot of categories but I think a three gun one would be another good stepping point for the new shooters working there way into the sport.  Maybe something with one pistol, rifle, shotgun and call it Lawdog or Town Marshal.  Well just a thought to get some feed back on.

Thanks
J. R. Logan

[Grizzle Bear]

J.R, your suggestion has the same reality problem some of us have with the four gun categories;

Nobody goes to a gunfight carrying a rifle AND a shotgun!  You've gotta put one down to use the other.

There has been talk of a "Detective" category, using two pistols and a rifle.

Grizzle Bear

[Major 2]

one of the things that drew me to Originals ( though, so far only in spirt ) was 2 Gun
any two guns...
that and the persona background & strict clothing guildlines


I have the 4 guns, even shoot that regiment cause that what they do here (Florida) ... just like the idea of 2 gun class which
we don't have .... YET ! 

[French Jack]

J.R.-- we only shoot one handgun at JCR-- the same goes for GLFMC and Scarlet Mask Vigilance.  The only difference between Working Cowboy and the other classes is that a shotgun is used in the others. (except for Originals-- which is any TWO legal firearms.)

[Tjackstephens]

I would like to know more about the Range Detective category. It sounds like something I would like to try. TJ

[Quick Fire]

We offer the Range Detective class here at the Blue River Regulators shoot, using two revolvers and a rifle. It went over really well at our shoots last year becoming our biggest catagory most of the time. Unfortunately, we have yet to have a shoot this year due to flooding at our range.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Hey, JR!  Howdy!

I agree with Griz in that the rifle AND a shotgun - for realism purposes - isn't overly practical.  However, I LIKE the idea as a shooter!  At the nationals, I shot 2 C&B pistols, rifle and shoot-gun.  I would have preferred only one pistol.

In a shooting competition, I don't mind more weapons to fire, even if it isn't as authentic as 1 and 1. 

As far as local clubs go, we at GLFMC have been shooting primarily WC type scenarios for years.  At our SMVS shoots, we pretty much have carried it over.  There's ALWAYS the opportunity for anyone to shoot 2 pistols, rifle & shotgun as desired, (or other combinations) but the WC setup has been most popular.

I like what Jack (Quick Fire - doggone it Jack; we missed ya at E'ville!) said their club has been trying with the 2 pistols and a rifle - kind of a Lawman or Detective scenario.  I have thought for many moons about a Town Marshal deal, ie: 1 main-match pistol, a hideout pistol and a shotgun scenario.  I think that'd be cool, 'specially with multiple shotgun reloads.  But then again: I  like shooting a lot of shotgun! 

[Smokey Three Toes]

 I have shot the 2 pistols and rifle class a few times and have enjoyed it, saves on the shoulder with the shot gun. I also shoot the 1 pistol and rifle at our local SASS club we call it the Grub Line Rider class. Just like the Working Cowboy class in NCOWS....

[Irish Dave]

JR:

One thing nice about NCOWS is that innovation (within authenticity limits) is often embraced. For example, the Working Cowboy class was started as an organized category by one club and eventually became widely popular -- to the point it was officially adopted as a class by NCOWS and has been the most popular class at the last 3-4 Nationals.

As Jack mentioned, his club has been experimenting with the 2-pistol/rifle Range Detective class. In time, it may become sufficiently popular to become an official NCOWS class. Who knows?

I think, as Griz noted, the authenticity aspect of characters wandering about with rifle and shotgun will give some pause to consider adding that configuration. That doesn't mean it wouldn't appeal to some. The last few Congress meetings have indicated there is little mood on the part of the Reps and Senators to add new classes. However, my guess is that, for now, the RD class probably has the best chance to eventually be adopted if it catches on and gains in popularity.

Just a couple of thoughts......

[J.R. Logan]

Thanks for the feedback.  If we want to talk authenticity non of us should be shooting more than 1 gun.  I have been doing some research for an article and very few gun fights envolved someone using more than 1 gun.  Mostly because there just was not enough time to get to or use the second gun even if you had it.

J. R. Logan

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I have read several articles that have stated that looking at the Western population as a WHOLE (farmers, cowboys, townies, etc) that there is a good chance - taken from numbers - that the REAL (type of) gun that "won the west" was probably a single-barrel shotgun - and probably a 10 ga.  It could help provide food and defend.  And it was inexpensive enough that many of the poorest settlers could afford it.



Sadly, THAT sure blows some of the "romance" involved with firearms in Western lore. 

[Books OToole]

Thanks for the feedback.  If we want to talk authenticity non of us should be shooting more than 1 gun.  I have been doing some research for an article and very few gun fights envolved someone using more than 1 gun.  Mostly because there just was not enough time to get to or use the second gun even if you had it.

J. R. Logan

And I have yet to read about any reloads in 19th century gunfights.

Books

[Delmonico]

And I have yet to read about any reloads in 19th century gunfights.

Books

Would depend on what you call a gun fight, Nate Champion more than likely reloaded both his Colt and the 73 he had a few times at the KC, by the amount of holes in the cabin I'd think the other guys did also.

Could dig out similar situations pretty easy. 

[Books OToole]

When ever I mention that there are not any historical references to a reload in a gunfight, the usual response from people who have done some research* is:  What about Nate Champion.

The Nate Champion affair was not really a gunfight.  It was a siege.  It was a bunch of hired gunmen shooting rifles at a cabin.  Occasionally Nate would throw a couple shots back just to let them know that he was still alive.

The affair was not exactly a sporting event and would not make a particularly fun stage.

There was a shoot out at Dodge between Bat Masterson and couple of gentlemen with whom he had a disageement.  They all took cover and shot until their guns were empty, with nobody getting hit.  Rather than reload they all called it a day.  I believe Mastersom paid a fine for disturbing the peace.

It is my opion, based on a whole lot of research, that this was the norm.


Books














*People who have not done any research usually respond with a dumb look.

[French Jack]

Don't leave out Elfego Baca.  That was a gunfight that turned into a siege of sorts, one man against a mob.

[Books OToole]

That's a good one Jack.  Still more of a siege.  Baca was holed up in a much less substantial structure than Champion, and managed to survive to fight another day.

Books

[Delmonico]

As I said, depends on what you call a gun fight, to me anything two or more folks are shooting at each other with the idea of doing bodily harm to each other, yeah to me it's a gun fight.

If there is another defination, I'm ready.

[French Jack]

Maybe if they have a chance to reload and take some cover, it's a siege--- if they just empty their gun/s, with or without effect, it's a gunfight?  That's a real winner!

[Tjackstephens]

I seem to remember Wild Bill in a gunfight with cap and ball revolvers. He ran out and had to dig in a bag for ball and powder to reload. TJ

[Will Ketchum]

I think the fight in Ingalls Oklahoma between the Doolin Gang and US Marshals Bill Tilghman, Chris Madsen and others would qualify as a "gunfight"  I am certain that there were some reloads there .

Now perhaps our esteemed historian Books O'Toole figures that by his definition, it there is a reload then it's either a war or a siege

We don't know if Commodore Perry Owens reloaded or not during his fight with the Bevins boys.  He might have been shoving shells into his rifle every chance he got

Will Ketchum