Trouble with New Uberti 45-75--------Shoots OK Now

McLernon · June 14, 2008, 06:38:11 PM

I have tried two recipes with my new 1876 and it shoots 24 inch groups at 50 yards. Yes 50 yards.And yes two feet.

How can ANY rifle possibly be this inaccurate let alone a $1500.00 one?

? I have never seen anything like it in 40 years of shooting.

The following are the two recipes tried:

60gr. Goex Cartridge powder under pure lead .457 inch dia 350 gr bullet

75gr. Goex cartridge powder under Laser Cast .459 inch dia 350 gr bullet

Barrel slugs out at 0.457 inch dia

Checked for leading and its clean.

PLEASE HELP

Mc

Crazy Horse · June 14, 2008, 10:52:16 PM

Dangit! That is terrible. Check the crown of the barrel. I have a 1893 marlin with a rusted out bore that will key hole groups tighter than that! I sure hope my 50-95 shoots good. It will be here in a couple of weeks. I hope you figure out what is wrong. I think I would be about ready to send it back to the factory. Let us know what you find out...

larryo_1 · June 15, 2008, 07:40:20 AM

Why don't you try a lead alloy of 20:1 for starters and then use 22.0 grains of 2400 for 5 shots and 72.0 grains of Swiss 1½ black for 5 shots. When I did what you did with the Goex, I wasn't too impressed but the above loads work great for me. So give them a try, at this point you don't have anything to loose but a few minutes of your time.

larryo_1 · June 15, 2008, 07:41:49 AM

One more thing, in passing, try this out at 25 yards first. You don't have as far to walk and if the results are good then go out to 50 yards. Thats what I do. But I'm an old fart!

larryo_1 · June 15, 2008, 07:43:21 AM

Another fleeting thought for the moment. I size all mine to 0.458 so that may be an issue also. I have a Hoch custom mold that casts, with the 20:1 alloy, a 350 grain bullet--nose pour.

McLernon · June 15, 2008, 09:34:37 AM

One thing I didn't mentoin is that the bullet I was shooting last(Laser cast) has only one grease groove, and when I was cleaning the rifle the fouling was hard and dry. I am going to try some smokeless and see how that works. Wiil hard fouling cause such inaccuracy?

Thanks for the input.

Mc

larryo_1 · June 15, 2008, 10:30:34 AM

You bet it could. The lube that I have used and still do is a mix of 50/50 Bees Wax and Water-pump grease. I have never had any problems with mix. Also, if you will look back in the files you will see where I sent out a number of different lube mixes for everybody to see.

Hell-Er High Water · June 15, 2008, 11:00:42 AM

In looking at the Laser Cast bullet that you are using two things come to mind. First, in my opinin, the Laser Cast bullet does not carry enough lube for BP shooting and second, smokeless lube will not work with BP. Been there, done that. If you want to try the Laser Cast bullet with BP to see if it carries enough lube, put a few in the oven, on a paper towel at about 150 degrees and melt the lube off the bullet. Then relube them with SPG or one of the many BP lube formulas that you can find in The Darksiders Den forum. Remember that BP must have some compression with no air space left in the case.

Also, you may want to try the 300 gr bullet from Whyte Leather Works. It has one large grease groove and the cripming groove is in the correct location for the 45-75 & the 45-60. This is the bullet that I am using in my 45-75 (Chaparral) and I have good results with it with both BP & smokeless. You can look at this bullet a whyteleatherworks.com. It is listed under the Accessories And Big Lube Bullet catagory.

HHW

McLernon · June 15, 2008, 01:49:17 PM

One thing I did do was melt off the original lube and put in SPG. But it is just one groove. It's hard to believe that such a degree of inaccuracy can be caused by what I did.

Powder was compressed and the bullets were down hard on the powder and then crimped.

Dare I believe that the barrel and crown are OK and all I have to do is get my Magma bullets done.

I have to believe that a Brown Bess shooting cubic bullets would do as well.

Hope The barrel and crown are OK, Italy is a long way away.

Mc

McLernon · June 15, 2008, 02:39:26 PM

By the way fellas thanks for your replies. I am one worried guy right now and the info you provided has 'talked me down' allot.

I am new to BPCR shooting and I have allot to learn. T'ain't the same as reloading for smokeles rounds ... no not at all.

Thanks again.

Mc

Hobie · June 19, 2008, 09:34:24 PM

My first thought was not enough lube or wrong lube. My gun has shot better than that with jacketed bullets, smokeless and pyrodex AND it is a POC Chaparral.

carrera1281 · June 20, 2008, 07:40:32 AM

dear sir this is my reloading data in my uberti 45/60 sierra 300 grs 8900 powder n135 40grs jamison brass try this in your rifle at 100 yards and look at the target you must have a very good accuracy but if you used buffalo brass change by jamison or other try to phone to ten x for this brass with my reloading data with jamison bass my score in 100 yards is 98/100 with buffalo brass my score is 46/100 because the rim is not cutted square by buffalo.

Dirty Brass · June 20, 2008, 07:53:59 AM

My load of Pyrodex compressed lightly and a 350 gr. bullet(20:1) lubed with SPG. It shot 4 inches or less at 65-70 yards. I also used borebutter in the barrel before shooting. Ran 10 shots off with no problems or fouling. I know Pyrodex isn't a favorite - I also have some triple-seven I'm going to try, but I have to use up the first loadings before switching over.

Grizzly Adams · June 22, 2008, 06:37:14 PM

Quote from: McLernon on June 14, 2008, 06:38:11 PM
I have tried two recipes with my new 1876 and it shoots 24 inch groups at 50 yards. Yes 50 yards.And yes two feet.

How can ANY rifle possibly be this inaccurate let alone a $1500.00 one?? I have never seen anything like it in 40 years of shooting.

Mc

Hey, Mc. Any update on your problem?

McLernon · June 27, 2008, 10:04:15 AM

Hi Griz:

I fired 20 rounds of laser cast single grease groove over 75 grains of Goex cartridge with a group of about 4 inches before the gun got fouled and spread the boolits all over. I now believe that I will need to employ 2 gg boolits(350gr all) with a grease cookie to try and reduce fouling. Also I am looking for some 1-1/2 Swiss......cleaner. I bought a Magma bevel base mould but havent got anywhere with it as my caster temp is all over the place. My 45-75 Uberti 4D dies are on the way from Buffalo Arms and today I am looking at casters..mine is 33 years old. I have ordered a 350 gr mould from BA that is specifically designed for the 45-75 but its on back order................I think I have a few things to learn about how to 'shoot dirty' with BP. Also I have had ALLOT of trouble finding decent lead. WW wont cast so far........bought some tin($40.00 per pound).... so you see it's a 'work in progress'

Thanks for showing interest.

Will keep y'all posted here from Canuckistan.

Mc

McLernon · June 28, 2008, 03:19:55 PM

Finally got stick-on WW with 5% tin to cast perfectly in my Magma mould and lubed and sized them in my SAECO, made some 1/16 inch thick SPG grease cookies and loaded 20 rounds ready for the range tomorrow. It sure was a struggle learning how to cast with my first steel mould. I need a new caster... any suggestions would be appreciated. If the barrel fouls now it isn't because there is a shortage of lube.

I hope the gun shoots.... it should as I was doing everthing wrong before.

Mc

Hobie · June 30, 2008, 08:53:55 AM

PLEASE post the results.

McLernon · July 01, 2008, 04:01:25 PM

Just returned from the range having tried my new recipe.....................SUCCESS. I fired 10 shots without cleaning at 50 yards and the largest group was 5 inches with one group 2 inches. I wet patched the barrel and continued with pretty good groups. The boolit is a bevel base that is not known for its accuracy and they were my first 'successful' attempt at casting............I AM a happy camper. I have no doubt that with a switch to Goex Express and flat-base bullet this rifle will do well...................now for a set of period aperture sights....

Thanks for all the input.

Mc

Buck Stinson · July 02, 2008, 06:10:35 PM

Congrats. I figured it was just a matter of trial and error. I don't know what make the bevel base bullet was that didn't perform well, but the fact is that all of the original Winchester, Ideal and Lyman bullet molds cast a beveled base bullet. It is a proven fact that they will out shoot a flat base in most cartridge guns. Enjoy your new '76.

Adios,
Buck

McLernon · July 06, 2008, 11:04:43 AM

Hi Buck:

I read in one of the many 'treatises' on the subject that said that BB boolits do not shoot as well as flat base and are only suitable for Cowboy shooting. The guy who wrote it was asociated in some way to Pedersoli. I have a flat base on back order with BACO and I'll see for myself. In the meantime I will be learning more about casting as I have ordered a new bottom feed caster and intend to buy'virgin' lead and tin to try 1:20 and 1:16 alloys. I really enjoy the whole BP thing. I HATE cleaning the cases and plan to get a 'vibrator' with media and do it dry.

Thanks for your input

Mc