A question for Darksiders loading on MEC presses

[JL McGillicuddy]

I just picked up a Sizemaster press to use loading my 12 gauge shells.  I am planning to use card and fiber wads instead of plastic.  (my gun likes 'em and they are easier to clean, not to mention the cool puff of fiber that accompanies every shot)

The question I have is how have you adjusted your wad pressure/depth setting.  Just how tight do I need it to be to function correctly?

No, before anyone asks, I am not planning to drop BP from those lovely plastic bottles.  I will be using my Lyman 55 to measure out my charges.

Thanks!
Jack Lee

[Cactus Cris]

Adjust the pressure just enough to seat the wads down snug on  the BP.  Ya don't need much pressure on it unless you need to make a little room for the shot, and to get a good crimp.  The more you push it down past just touching it, the more recoil and pressure you build up.  I put in 37gr 3f ( yes I do use the plastic hoppers), a grey WW wad, 7/8 oz. shot.  I use the Grabber cause  the last station puts a nice taper on the end.  I used to put 60- 85 gr, red WW wad, 1 1/8 oz shot- figured out that I was 1-wasting powder, 2- beating my shoulder up,3- 37gr takes the knockdowns down just fine.  I load my G'daughters BP 12ga with 26gr 3f & that load works just fine too.  No recoil problems for a 12yr old.
  BTW-- If you ever want to use the powder drop-  Find the MEC bushing guide that has all the powders listed and what bushing to use for each grainage.  Find HS-6 powder column-  it will be within 2-3 gr. for what it will drop with real BP. (extensive weighing to make sure & use of all the bushings - have all from #18 up to the largest one they make plus one I made out of a brass bar stock that dumps 92gr! )  It didn't shoot too good--the fiber wad blew a hole in the pattern but was impressive at night!

[Dick Dastardly]

I takin' an ol MEC aluminum bar and bored out the powder side to equal the shot volume.  Remember. . . Square load???

Then, I takin' an over shot card, put it on top the powder, crushed it down some and installed a well lubed fiber wad (Circle Fly), to make up the right column height.  Next, I dropped in the fineshot and put on an overshot card.  I came up with an inside column length to make a purty roll crimp.

The roll crimp is installed on a lil bench top drill press and the hull is held snug by a MEC Supersizer unit.  It squeezes the base just rite whilst I spin down the roll crimp.  I like to rite a lil data on the overshot card when I'm done.  Don't make no nevermind on how they shoot, just keeps me honest.

Yep, ya kin drop Holy Black from them MEC bottles.  But, yer on yer own.  Don't smoke or do nothin' else stupid.

DD-DLoS

[Jefro]

Howdy JL, I use a Mec 600jr with plastic wads, never had a problem with clean up. I use Lee dippers to measure and seat the wads just snug or a light crunch depending on the load and wad. Hope to see you on the range with Piece B. Steel.

  Jefro,  Relax-Enjoy

[Adirondack Jack]

I got a MEC jr FREE, bored the hole to accept a 45 gr (weight) charge of 777 (volume equal to a 60 gr BP charge), and I squish the pi$$ out of it, use a nitro card, 1/2 inch 12 GA fiber filler, about 1 1/8 ounces of shot (whatever it tosses, but I think that's it), a thin overshot card, and get a PERFECT crimp (matter of fact, I gotta be careful not to confuse em with factory STS rounds.)

[Dick Dastardly]

In order to make cleanup even easier, I lube my fiber wads in PL-II.  When I seat the card wad on the powder I use about 90 Lbs of pressure, then I seat the lubed fiber wad.  I put an empty pistol hull inside the drop tube to keep the lube out.  I remove the pistol brass from the drop tube and drop the shot and follow it by an over shot card and close with a roll crimp.

My experience with plastic wads in my scatterguns and bp ammo has been very bad.  Cleanup took two weeks of alternate scrubbing and soaking in everything I found on the wire.  Never again.

DD-DLoS

[JL McGillicuddy]

Thanks, gang!

Jefro, I will be at Salisbury this coming month and then will likely not shoot again until July as I am having my rifle tuned a bit after that match.  I have to shoot smokeless at ONSP for the same reason. 

I am looking forward to having my own shotshells and knowing what I put in 'em.  I have been lucky enough to have a couple of shooters help me out with shells until I could get up to load my own.  I even have a graphic artist I work with working on a label for me to put on my ammo boxes.    

The first batch of shotshells that I was given was loaded with plastic wads.  The batch after that was loaded with card and fiber.  Plastic may work for some folks, but it just ain't for me.  I put some time cleaning my scattergun after those matches shooting plastic and didn't realize how much of a chore it was until I cleaned up after that first match of card and fiber.  It took me about 30 minutes to clean the plastic out and about 10 to clean out the card/fiber.  That pretty much made my mind up right there.  I got the recipe for the shells that were given to me loaded with card and fiber since my gun liked them and am planning to use that for my starting load.  I am planning to roll crimp eventually, but for the moment I am not set up for it. 

DD, for roll crimping hulls, are you using standard 2 3/4 once fireds?  If so, are you cutting the old crimp off?


I truly appreciate you folks helping me along the way you have been.  It is a real time saver to not have to reinvent the wheel. 

My next project is to get set up to load for my big 10er.  I should be getting that back from my 'smith this month.  (Told him not to get in a hurry getting it completed.  Needed to get set up to load 12ga shells before I even worried about getting up to load for Ole Quinn.)

Jack Lee

[Dick Dastardly]

I made myself a tapered wood cone on my lathe.  It runs from just under .410 at the tip to a bit over 10ga at the base.  I put a 1/4-20 bolt in the base.  The whole rig is about 3" long.  I chuck this rig in my drill motor and "recondition" my hulls before I reload them.  That way, I don't have to cut them.  Works great for roll and pie crimps.

DD-DLoS

[springfield]

If ya fill your barrels with hot soapy water, let it sit for about a minute, then use a spiral Tornado brush the plastic will come right out.

[Pony Racer]

When I shot plastic, don't anymore - I used carberator cleaner (just make sure to take wood off from barrels).

I would spray the barrels with the cleaner and then clean everything else.  Then when I pushed a bore mop through shotgun - I would get these 2-3 inch black cylindrical looking things pushed out with first pass of the mop.  I then would do a little scrubbing with brush haed and be done.

Since I shoot fiber wads - shotgun cleaning maybe take 10 minutes with double and a little longer (15) with 12 guage Lever Gun and Martini-Henry due to paying more attention to scrubbing the actions.

I use a light roll crimp on my brass hulls every 4 firings or so - that way the feed in all guns well.

Glue in the overshot card with elmers.

I use a 1930-40's vintage single stage turret 12 guage press

PR

[Howdy Doody]

I load on a Sizermaster too. Good choice, because sizing the brass of once fireds, insures that they will be back to normal specs. I also load fibre and plastic wads too.
I use a n adjustable powder bar. I load my BP (Goex) right in the plastic bottle and then my shot in the other. I adjusted my powder bar to drop into a Lee 4.3cc scoop. That is what I used before and what I have always used. It figures around 65gr if I recall right. Nevertheless it is a 4.3cc load into the hull, followed by a overpowder card and then fibre wad. Since I ram mine to 35lbs, I never change from fibre to plastic. I always use the 35lb setting. I drop 1 oz of shot on top of the wad and crimp.
I have loaded an awful lot of shotgun shells in the past and I have no problems with my Mec doing the job. I started with a Lee Load All, and it worked fine, but it just isn't as easy as the Mec.
Dropping powder from a Lyman is gonna be time consuming. I am not going to tell you what to do for your own safety, but I worry about heat, not static myself. Safe loading of any powder, especially black goes without saying.

[Lincoln Co. Regulator]

I use a MEC loader, and just use the plastic bottles. I use the adjustable charge bar, and it's pretty well wide open. Course I'm loading 10ga. It's about 95gr. of 2f and 1 3/8oz. of shot. I use fiber wads, and have the pressure set just enough to seat them solidly against the powder. Too much and the seater tube will sink into the wad.

[Missouri Marshal]

I don't know why folks have problems cleaning when using plastic wads.  I use them all the time.  Spray some windex down the tubes, let set for about 30 seconds, wad up some newspaper, shove it through the bores everything comes out the other end and they are clean as a whistle.  I can clean both Tricky Trina's and my shotguns in less than 10 miniutes. 

[Tricky Trina]

Ya gotta love a man that will clean (and maintain) yur guns!   

[Dick Dastardly]

I learnt my lesson about heathen plastic wads when I loaned my 12ga 311 to a needy pard.  He shot holy black with plastic wads and it took me Two weeks of work to get it clean.  Never again.

My fiber wad loads clean up with a spritz of Moosemilk and a tug of the boresnake.  That's all.  No weasel pi$$, witches brew, brake cleaner, atomic disperser or ultrasound for me.  Nope, a simple spritz and tug and I'm off for a tall cool sip of my favorite fermented malt beverage.

My loads shoot good, kill KDs and clean up easy.

It's all natural for me.

DD-DLoS

[JL McGillicuddy]

I didn't have any of the problems that other pards are relating with the plastic not wanting to come out of the bore of my shotgun.  I can't speak to that.  My experiences have been that I can get all of the residue out with no problems but, as picky as I am about the condition of my bore, it took me about 30 minutes to have my shotgun cleaned to my satisfaction.  As I said earlier, all my BP shot shells have, to this point, been loaded by helpful pards so I shot what I was given.  My first 150 or so were with plastic wads.  The latest batch I got were loaded with card and fiber and I noticed that using the same cleaning method (exactly) the bore was "clean enough for me" in about 10 minutes of cleaning. 

That being my personal observations, I am using card and fiber in my guns.  My 12 bore likes them well enough even though it is a modern gun that others have had bad experiences with card/fiber loads with.  (Remington/Baikal Spartan 220).  I have a starting load that I have seen with my own two eyes handles well and seems to take targets well (have to pattern it after I make up a batch) so I am beginning there. 

My 10 bore is a 1950s vintage gun.  It is my understanding that shotguns made in that time period were configured to use card/fiber loads, so I see no reason not to use them in that monster.

I wouldn't tell someone NOT to use plastic wads in BP loads based on my experiences, just to expect it to take longer to clean the same gun to the same standard. 

My current cleaning regimen consists of Hoppes Elite BP solvent, tornado brush, bronze brush, and patch jag.  I put a light coat of Ballistol down the bore when I have it cleaned to help with the next go 'round.

Like I said, I am a bit particular about cleaning my guns.

Just the opinion of a darksider in training and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Jack Lee

[Howdy Doody]

JL, good performance in shotguns has to do with the load and how the thing patterns out. You need some large sheets of cardboard to shoot at in place of, say a knockdown. See, how many of the shot pellets hit where aimed and that there is no opening in the pattern (doughnut). My main match shotgun is a Baikal. I have chokes and I use the Colonial mod ones in both barrels. My best load for knockdowns is the 4.3cc of 2F Goex and a red (now a replica) winchester wad and one ounce of mixed shot. I mix 71/2 with #6 equal parts.
I use the fibre wadded loads, same powder and same shot weight in the same shotgun for flyers and poppers. That is because the pattern opens up much more and I have better luck with the wider spread of pellets.
As far as cleaning with plastic wads goes. I like to spritz a bit of windex with vinigar in my barrels after a match and take two smokeless cheapo rounds from walmart and fire them off. When I get to cleaning, I stuff paper towel in each chamber and give the barrels a good spritz and wait a few minutes and push the towels through with cleaning rod. Then a couple more towels to dry and a patch to oil. That is all I do and the barrels look really great, except in my case I do have some debris form at the bottom of where the chokes screw in. So, every few times I take the chokes out and clean that too. I dab a bit of neversieze on the choke threads and reinstall. It takes no time at all. 

[Arcey]

Had a fit gettin' the snot outtah mine. Soaked it in Ed's Red, werked on it with a brush, repeat. Think the last of it burnt out.

Seen the Marshal's 'n Trina's at the tables many times. Big difference in their Russian bores 'n my po' ole wore out South American.

Goex. Usin' an over powder card wad. Grits ta fix the column height. Plastic shot cup. AA shells. Shot it last May 3rd. Sprayed it with Moosemilk 'n put it away. Have a shoot Saturday. Sprayed it again this afternoon 'n left it sit while I drug the trash cans in. Six half sheets of paper towel shoved thru the bores 'n she's clean as she'll ever be.       

[Griff]

Drop yer charges to below 60 grains and/or just run HOT water thru the barrels.

[Jefro]

Drop yer charges to below 60 grains and/or just run HOT water thru the barrels.

Griff, you may be on to something. My 7/8 load is 45gr FFg and my 1 1/8 load is 55gr FFg, both clean up very easy with Mutphy's mix and a piece of paper towel followed by Ballistol and a bore snake.

  Jefro