My new (first) 1851s

[Rube Burrows]

I posted this here to show off my new 1851s incase some of you were not in on the Brass Fram thread I started. Thanks to the guys who helped me with some questions before I purchased.


Well I decided to go ahead and get a pair of 1851 Navy. I picked them up from Cabela's yesterday. I got the Reb. models mostly cause they were about 50 dollars difference and I wanted to get a belt and holsters for them also along with the powder, primers, bore butter, balls and other things. Here is a pic of the ones I got though.

[Arcey]

Mighty nice lookin' pair.

I have one, round barrel, .36. Bought it from a pard who inherited the thing. Said it'd been sittin' onna shelf for 15 years. Paid $40.00 for it. Nipples were mushroomed over. Replaced those. Did a l'il work on her innards. She's served me well. Misfires were rare. No idea who made it. Nothin' but proof marks on it.

Sixteen (16) grains 2f 'n a round ball.

My wishes ya have a pile of fun with 'em.

[Rube Burrows]

Sounds like you got one hell of a deal. In the booklet that came with the pistols it says not to load anymore than 22 grains of powder. Should I go even lower than that? They are .44s.

[Arcey]

Can't help ya with that, Joey. I have a ROA but it's been so long since I've shot it I don't remember what I put in it. Ain't sure I'd be wantin' ta put the same charge in yers anyway. With the Ruger it doesn't really matter.

[Black Powder]

I certainly wouldn't exceed the 22 grain max!  To your question, if you round down to 20, you should be fine.  You'll get plenty of smoke and the right feel.

I assume by "other stuff" you meant cleaning utensils like brass brush and some Moose Milk.

That's a great pair.  Be deliberate, don't rush anything and be disciplined enough to clean them well after each use.  You'll have them for years of enjoyment.

Congrats.

BP

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Nice pair, JG! 

That 22 grs (by weight) will be just fine in them.  Once in a while (but not regularly) you could safely go up to 25 to try it, but I'd do what the other pards suggest.  Get yourself a 20 grain spout.  They throw by VOLUME. not weight, so you'll be safe.  If you weight 20 grs by volume you'll usually find that it's actually about 18-19 grs by weight.  BP is kinda fluffy so it takes up a bit of extra space.  Also, when you put one of those spouts on your flask, you'll do like most of us: finger over the end of the spout, open the spring loaded lever and shake down some powder into the spout - keeping your finger securely over the hole of course, then you'll release the latch so that the powder is trapped in the spout.  Then, simply turn it back with the spout UP and remove your finger, tip it and fill the chamber, than ram home the ball.  Got it?  Well, if you DO that, your finger will actually fill the end of the spout slightly and it'll not let about 2 grains of powder into the spout.

I tried this with all my spouts (5) and got the same results in each.  If the spout is (ostensibly) a 25 gr spout, for instance, the weighed amount of the powder was actually about 22- 23 grs when I weighed them.  In other words, about 10% to 14% short.

Now this is only what  I  do.  YOU do what seems best and safest (and fun  ) to YOU! Also, each lot of powder will vary, so a volume measured spout of 25 grs will be maybe 21 grs from one lot of powder and a year later, with another lot of powder it could be 23 or 24 grs!  It's just a guideline.  Pyrodex is different, too.  2F is different than 3f ... and so on.  1/2 to 1 grs difference of powder between loads really isn't very critical, anyway.  Not like it is with smokeyless powder!



By the way, if you ever decide to shoot some conical balls (the ones that look more modern than the roundball you probably got) you will want to lower your powder charge, because they're a good bit heavier.  Probably down to 15 grs of BP or so.

[litl rooster]

good advise and tips here............Now let the "Smoke be with you"

don't forget to lube yer balls, some crisco will do.

[Rube Burrows]

I certainly wouldn't exceed the 22 grain max!  To your question, if you round down to 20, you should be fine.  You'll get plenty of smoke and the right feel.

I assume by "other stuff" you meant cleaning utensils like brass brush and some Moose Milk.

That's a great pair.  Be deliberate, don't rush anything and be disciplined enough to clean them well after each use.  You'll have them for years of enjoyment.

Congrats.

BP

Well when I said other stuff I meant that I got a starter kit, Bore Butter, primers, Pyrodex (recommended by the Cabelas guy). Inside the kit came some of the wads I guess they are called, a powder measure, cheap plastic flask and some balls.

Forgive me but what is Moose Milk? I am new to the BP Shooting so any of your pointers will be very well accepted.

[litl rooster]

Well when I said other stuff I meant that I got a starter kit, Bore Butter, primers, Pyrodex (recommended by the Cabelas guy). Inside the kit came some of the wads I guess they are called, a powder measure, cheap plastic flask and some balls.

Forgive me but what is Moose Milk? I am new to the BP Shooting so any of your pointers will be very well accepted.

b  Mixture of Ballistol and water  around 6 parts water to 1 Balistol  turns a white milky color. Most of us put in a pump spray bottle and use for Cleaning, It Lubes at the same time.  I believe there is some useful info in the "Dark Arts" section on it.

[Ransom Gaer]

Joey Guns,

Nice lookin' pistols there.

Arcey,

That round barrel .36 sounds like a Leech and Rigdon.  I have one of the Uberti Leech and Rigdon revolvers.  The only differences I see between it and a Colt 1851 Navy is the round barrel and no cylinder scene.  Otherwise they seem the same.

Ransom Gaer

[Abilene]

Did you get to hand pick them or did you just get lucky with the purty wood on them grips?   

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Well when I said other stuff I meant that I got a starter kit, Bore Butter, primers, Pyrodex (recommended by the Cabelas guy). Inside the kit came some of the wads I guess they are called, a powder measure, cheap plastic flask and some balls.

Forgive me but what is Moose Milk? I am new to the BP Shooting so any of your pointers will be very well accepted.

A lot of die-hard BP shooters don't like Pyrodex.  It IS a bit harder to ignite, but with good caps, you won't have any trouble.  (Remington, RWS are good, and CCI works OK)  I've not shot much Pyrodex - maybe only 40-45 pounds or so  , but I actually DO prefer Goex BP 3f for most shooting.  The wads go between the powder and the balls.  You can use them or not ... the wad tends to scrape a small amount of firing residue from the barrel as it travels downrange, but most of us don't use them all the time.  I actually dip my felt wads in my own homemade lubricant - which is a mix of about 1/4 lb beeswax (expensive, but available from a lot of craft stores, like Hobby Lobby)   and Olive Oil.  I don't know how much Olive Oil I used last; I just added it to the Beeswax while melting it (Be VERY careful, beeswax is VERY flammable) until I got the approximate consistency of Crisco. (AFTER it cooled, naturally  )  Making lube is a bit time consuming until you find the right "recipe" that suits you.  The Bore-Butter you got will serve you well as both a lube for the gun and I'd put a dab over each loaded bullet - whether you use a wad or not.  Crisco - as suggested by Litl Rooster - is pretty cheap compared to Bore-Butter, but Crisco gets pretty runny when the temperature hits the summer highs. 

The plastic powder measure you got will work, but save some pennies - a bit of cash - and go back to Cabella"s and get a reproduction flask with a removable spout.  (Like I mentioned in my first post.)  They look great and it's more like the way it was done "back in the day."  You might also invest a few bucks on a good quality "nipple wrench."  You'll need it before long.  ASAP!



Flask from Cabella's:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006439210258a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=powder+flasks&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=powder+flasks&noImage=0

Nipple wrench from Cabella's:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0003248210271a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=nipple+wrench&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=nipple+wrench&noImage=0

Ballistol is an oil as explained, that will form a "colloidal suspension" (mix, sorta) with water, ie: "moosemilk" which will help clean and lubricate the gun.  I've been using it for about 3 years now and it works fine.  But IMHO it stinks.  Literally.  As soon as you open the can.  Since 1974 what I've used is "Hoppes #9 Plus"   Black Powder cleaner/lube and I like the smell and its performance somewhat better.  They BOTH work fine.  The Hoppes also stinks, but it has the decency to wait until it mixes with the BP fouling, not as soon as you open the container! 

You can buy different sized (weight) spouts for the flask.  The Cab. write-up says the 36 cal version comes with a 15 gr spout, which I   find a bit puny, but I like full power.  It will work, and could be useful if you decide to try shooting some conicals.

As for the wrench, it will be VERY useful and comes with six additional nipples.  That can be good, but most of us will recommend that you invest about $25-$30 (per gun) for a replacement set of TRESO nipples from Thunder Ridge:
http://www.thunder-ridge.com/products.php?cat=69

If you DO decide to get the nipples, don't beat your brains out trying to figure out WHICH nipples ("cones" is the old word) to buy: just call them, tell them what your guns are and THEY'LL know what you need.  You might consider buying your (future) nipple wrench and the powder flask/spouts from them, too.  It (the wrench) won't have 6 extra cones, but if you buy the best one they have, it'll last you for life - many of the others sold elsewhere will break - read Cabella's product reviews.  Again, ASK the person on the phone.

Well, this is probably more than you expected, but I hope it'll cover some future questions.  Of course - this is the way I do it.  Black Powder shooting is wonderful because so MANY different things (and opinions) work well. 

It ain't rocket surgery or brain science. 


Like my pard Litl Rooster said, "May the Smoke be with you!"

Keep yer powder dry!

[Arcey]

Thanks, Rans. Sounds right. No engravin' on the cylinder, round barrel.

I was the MD when I was shootin' it 'n it was too much of a rush to load it. Bought another cartridge Colt clone ta stay legal in FC. Ain't shot it much since.

Brass frame 'n all, rarely a minute's trouble. Well.... After I resorted to usin' a sledge hammer ta get the wedge out the first time.

A werd on Crisco. Rooster, don't rope 'n hold me while Montana beats me with a stick. It sure ran on me like SHB said. Gooped up the revolver 'n left on the table for a few. On carpet. In the sun. A touch warm out. When I went ta get it it was in a puddle of salad oil. All in the carpet on the table. Other shooters stayed PO'ed at me for a month. 

[Flinch Morningwood]

I shot the Remington 1858 (.44) in percsusion for a while before I moved to the 1851's and converted them...I would agree with what has been said here about sticking to 20 grains, especially on the brass frame...try 3F for a little more push...

I usually loaded the powder, then a lubed felt wad, then the ball...in the small time period btween loading and shooting, I didn't worry about lube migration into the powder.  I never over lubed the ball (maybe I should have  ) but between stages I would spray with moose milk and wipe a bit...depends on if you are going to remove the cylinders to load.  The 20 grain spout nakes things a snap either way.

You might want to pick up a loading stand to make things a bit easier...I used oned for a removed cylinder (just easier on the Remingtons) but the they come for the Colts too...It holds the weapon upright, freeing up BOTH hands to load

Good luck...you're going love it!

[Black Powder]

You might also consider making your own cartridges using cigarette paper.  Roll the paper around the ball, making a cone with the excess into which you pour the powder.  Licked the gummed part (don't slobber all over it).  Do a bunch.  The first one should be dry and then you can use the 20 grain funnel on your flask to pour powder into the paper.  Fold the ends shut.  With ball & powder in paper, you just use the loading lever to load each cartridge into each cylinder, swipe some bore butter over the end of the cylinder, then poke a hole into the paper with a paper clip through the nipple.  This should speed up the process.  Also much easier on a windy day.  Lastly, if you're old like me, it means not having to be taking one's glasses on and off to see what the heck you're doing!

That's the theory at least.  There's a number of discussions here on making paper cartridges.

Just a thought...

BP

[Rube Burrows]

Steel Horse, Thanks for all the great pointers. I knew I was getting into a whole new style of shooting from what im used to. I knew it was going to be very involved but that is what I was looking for. I am new to the BP shooting but I think with the help of the forums I will be just fine. Its got some great guys here who have been so nice and willing to help out a new pard.

I do plan to make some upgrades. I will check out the companies you linked me to. Thanks.


I did get to pick out the wood sorta. They only had about 5 in stock so I picked out the best ones. The guy ( who obviously does not shoot much) was looking at me crazy when I kept having him bring out box after box to open up. I would open them up and inspect them and had several open at one time. I told him I was going to buy a pair and I guess he wondered what I was doing with all of them if I already knew I was going to get that model.


Thanks a bunch guys for all of the help you guys have gave me.

[Ransom Gaer]

Joey Guns,

Isn't it fun to harass the help. 

Arcey,

Does that little round barrel .36 have a brass frame?  The reason I ask is as far as I know the Leech and Rigdon Navies were steel framed.  Mine is.  Kinda sounds like the Italians invented a new civil war model a hundred some years after the fact.  Back in the eighties I had a little .36 Navy with brass frame and 5" barrel.  I have no clue who built it.  I got it from a friend.  It was a blast to shoot though.

Ransom Gaer

[Arcey]

The frame, backstrap 'n trigger guard are all brass, Rans. The barrel is round, 7 1/2". Those who've looked it that claim to know have identified it as a Griswold & Gunnison clone. I've looked at images of those on various websites 'n they're what it closely resembles.

[Major 2]

Here you go Arcey an original G&G



And a Leech and Rigdon

[Arcey]

She looks like the G&G but without the numbers.