Shootin' DDs new 500gr MK III

[Cuts Crooked]

Finally got to the range today and took my Roller and twenty rounds of the MK III that DD sent me to try some time back. First target was shot with 70 grains of Goex CTG lit off with CCI Rifle primers. The second was with 68 gr of KIK 3F ignited with Winchester large pistol primers. Shooting at 250 yards both loads held MOA for ten rounds, but the KIK loads grouped slightly better. I'm fairly impressed, as this is about as good as my eyesight will permit even with extrordinary weather/light conditions!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Looks good to me!

[Paladin UK]

Fer  CC......

Reeel nice shootin pard,

  I`d be happy with those groups at 50yds!! 

Paladin (whats gotta get more practice!! ) UK

[w44wcf]

Cuts Crooked,
NICE SHOOTING! Looks like DD's new bullet is a good one!
Did you fire the 20 rounds in a row without cleaning or blow tubing?

Thank you,
w44wcf

[Cuts Crooked]

Nope. Because they were two different loads I shot the first ten rounds, cleaned and then shot the second ten. Having experiance with the other Big Lube designs for the big bores I know I COULD have shot them all without cleaning, but I wanted to give each load a clean start...so to speak>

[w44wcf]

Cuts Crooked,

Thank you for the update.
That's some mighty fine shootin'!

w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for flyin' 'em for me Cuts,

I've got one mold set aside with yer name on it.  This bullet design had a long and very difficult birth.  It's here now and I've flown it from 50 to 500 yards.  It seems not to need a distance to "settle down" and fly right.  1000 yard data will be posted soon.  The shooter is better than I am cuz he can see better.

The bullet design seems to be one that seeks the center regardless of distance.  The semi spitzer nose was a revelation.  I can't claim complete design originality since a number of great shooters contributed.  Just in case you are wondering, the Big Lube™ groves work out to just the right spacing  such that the transition from supersonic to subsonic happens with almost no turbulence.  In subsonic flight the bullet emulates a perfectly smooth paper patched bullet.  In supersonic flight the shock wave is beyond the cut of the groves and they are transparent to turbulence.  It seems to be a paradox, but this could be the most quiet assassins bullet yet. . .

The real proof will come at the ranges where the bullets fly.  Some are in Germany, many here in the USA and others around the planet.

Let 'em flicker.

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

 ... I'm encouraged!  Loaded 20 today with 65gr Meteor FFFg (Sieved) - COAL of 3.00 for the HiWall.  The first band is completely engraved and they should be in the 1150 - 1175 fps range at the muzzle
Bad news is - don't know when I'll get to the range ... will let you know how they fly.

Cuts - nice groups.  Suspect with KIK producing more fps than CTG - that the bullet likes speed to keep it out of the subsoniic area at 250yds on the target.  So this gets me to thinking - should load some with 70grs of FFFg or maybe even a duplex load to get it up in the 1300 fps range

FYI - the bullet carries 3.5gr of my lube!

[Cuts Crooked]

... I'm encouraged!  Loaded 20 today with 65gr Meteor FFFg (Sieved) - COAL of 3.00 for the HiWall.  The first band is completely engraved and they should be in the 1150 - 1175 fps range at the muzzle
Bad news is - don't know when I'll get to the range ... will let you know how they fly.

Cuts - nice groups.  Suspect with KIK producing more fps than CTG - that the bullet likes speed to keep it out of the subsoniic area at 250yds on the target.  So this gets me to thinking - should load some with 70grs of FFFg or maybe even a duplex load to get it up in the 1300 fps range

FYI - the bullet carries 3.5gr of my lube!

Donno, John Boy, I've had good luck with all of the 45-70 Big Lube designs, including the first one, which took up so much case capacity. But my Roller has a long throat and I was able to load it with the first groove exposed and get quite a bit more powder under it. (wouldn't want to pack those around much though  ) I kinda think that the 30 degree angle on those lube canyons has a lot to do with how turbulance affects air flow over sides of this type boolit, creating far less of a drag problem than one would expect. Wasn't it you who rediscovered Winchesters efforts, long ago, to create a similar bullet? For whatever reason that bullet seems to have fallen off the radar, perhaps because it didn't fly all that well with it's 45 degree angle on the grooves? Then again, I think Winchester had it's lever guns in mind when they introduced that bullet. And it came along right at the end of the black powder era, giving it two strikes from the outset with BPCR shooters. Still, Goex CTG has never been my best powder fer long range shooting. It does good at times, but it has always taken some experimenting to get the best load with that powder. KIK has been a good powder for my shooting, in spite of it's reputation as a "cheap" powder.

At any rate, this is another BL bullet mold that I will want in my bag of "good stuff fer shootin" as I feel, even with only the limited test I've done, that it is the best yet!  DD, I will be in touch when the pennies build up a bit!!!!!

[Dick Dastardly]

Since I live close to the University of Wisconsin, I have limited access to some of their physical facilities given due notice.  The DD=45-70 Mk-III bullet has nearly a whisper quiet transition from supersonic to subsonic.  I attribute this to the precise spacing of the groves (destructive interference) and the angle of the lube walls.

There's been more engineering than is readily apparent in this design.  It is the Third of a series.  The previous two designs flew very well but had problems not related to their design that limited their performance and utility.  Namely, the MK-I took up too much case room.  It did perform up to expectation in 45-90 and longer cases.  However, it was intended to be a 45-70 projectile and as such it simply was too long.

The Mk-II flew great.  Those that experienced it's potential were very pleased with it's downrange performance.  However, the performance of the molds left much to be desired.  The design was pushing the absolute OAL limits of the LEE single cavity mold block capacity.  Thus, the nose ended at the alignment pin and the molds were too fragile for the volume expected of them.

The Mk-III had a refined nose profile (no ballistic penalty) to a semi spitzer design.  Also, an new and very high quality small hand crafted mold maker was contracted to produce the new design in limited quantities.  In other words, after the prototype delivery, the order maximum was placed at less than 1/2 the volume that LEE required.  This is both good and bad.  I have to keep very close tabs on inventory in order to assure reasonable delivery to my customers.  The good side is this.

The new DD-45-70 Mk-III molds are a very high precision quality Iron product in Twin cavities.  Each mold is carefully cut and then bullets are cast.  The bullets are precision miked for absolute quality before the mold blocks are shipped.  This is the same mold maker that has produced many of the BPCR long range molds that hold many of the current records for accuracy.  I'm proud to offer these very high precision molds as a Big Lube™ black powder product.

Ok, off the stump.  The new Mk-III bullets sure are pretty.  They fly as well as they look.  Beauty is as beauty does.

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

... Cast the first batch of 100 MK-III's:
Bhn - 11.0 (1:10)
Average wts - 474.3  to 478.6
(wider spread than I would of liked, but my digital thermometer was goofy)
(The bullets filled out in the mold nicely but I was expecting a higher weight close or over to the 492gr specification using the 1:10 alloy)
Driving Band - 461
Band 1 - 460
Base - 460

Loaded 20:
R-P's
Br-2 Primers
Newspaper over primer hole
68gr Meteror FFFg (Sieved)
030 Fiber Wad
Crimp only to remove the bell
COAL -3.0 for the HiWall

Best 5 shot group after sighters ... 100yds:
2 - X's
2 - 9 ring
1 - 8 ring
Blow tubing after each shot

Believe the COAL created spreads wider than I wanted.  The full first band was engraved and I had to seat the rounds with a Cartridge Seater.  Next batch will be 2.92 or 2.95 OAL

Will see how they fly at longer yardage in the Sharps and HiWall

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks John Boy,

I do use a duplex load when I want to reach a Thousand yards.  Even though I have a Lee Shaver Soule long range sight, I need that velocity so as not to run out of ladder.  My rounds clock at 1360fps.  They do thump me some, but they go where I shoot them.

Now, my problem is that I have to get a glass sight.  My eyes just don't pick out those distant targets well enough.  I  can hit what I can see though.

Thanks again for the results.  I'll stand by and see what you learn as the distance grows.

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

Range Report - 28 May 2008
MK-III (1:10) mixed weights 474 to 477
R-P Cases
CCI LR Primer
Powder: 62 to 70gr Swiss 1.5
0.030 LDPE Wad
Finger Seated
Crimp to only remove bell
COAL - 2.917
(Had to lightly cam the rounds with a Cartridge Seater in the Sharps.  Rounds in the HiWall cammed closing the breech)

Shooting pattern:  Blow tube each shot with Moose Milk and patch after every 2nd round

Bright Sun
69 F
18mph winds - 12:00
56% RH
30.12" Pressure

100 Yd Target - using Sharps rifle ... 2 Shot String Groups

62.5gr group - shot high with vernier at lowest elevation - zero
63gr group - 6:00 hold
Right side groups - moved windage to show clearer groups

500 Yd Point of Impacts ... Boiling Mirage (9:00 to 3:00)
25 Shots .... Sharps rifle off Sticks (sitting)
One or 2 random reloads from each powder charge

2 - 6 Ring
12 - 7 Ring
2 - 8 Ring
6 - 9 Ring
3 - 10 Ring

Back to the 100 Yd - HiWall rifle to finish off rounds in the box
Have no idea of the specific powder charges other than they were the mixed 62 - 70grs



OK, now why are the groups open with the Sharps at 100 and 500 ... and a tight group with the HiWall?
Should have been using a lollipop insert on the Sharps instead of the cross hair insert that I left on the rifle when shooting 1000yds

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks John Boy,

Several observations. .

All the holes are round.

The concentration, disregarding a couple of "fliers", is very good.

18mph at 12 O'clock can vary a mite side to side and in velocity.

I'm waitin' on my glass sight.  Given a good rest and targets I can see, I hope to  do as good.

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

Dick - every hole was perfect - not a sign of even a wiggle

All the holes are round.

Forgot to mention ... had a light star lube on the muzzle of each rifle and the color was light tan - not black

[Dick Dastardly]

YES!!!

She flys!

Now, if I can hold well. . .

Why is it that my creation arrives too late for my best eye sight?

DD-DLoS

[john boy]

More information that I forgot to post ... from my Little Green Book
Velocities:  10' from the muzzle (2 shots for each charge)
Powder Charge ....... Hi ...... Low
62gr .................... 1186 ...Error
62.5 .................... 1194 ... 1189
63 ....................... 1201 ... 1180
63.5 .................... 1197 ... 1183
64 ....................... 1185 ... Error
64.5 .................... 1242 ... 1203
65 ....................... 1217 ... 1202
70gr .................... 1263 ... 1229

Again, these were varied weight bullets (474 to 477gr) and the powder was Swiss 1.5

[Ranch 13]

John do you anticipate getting to test those on paper at ranges out further than 500?

[john boy]

Don - yes.  At our local range, 600yds.  That's the max distance for our club.  Then when I go up to Ridgeway PA to visit my buddy, Homer, he will get a taste of the bullet at 1000.  Should be going to Ridgeway after the Alaska trip and then again in the Fall

And I will be using a circle insert instead of the cross hair one

[Cuts Crooked]

John Boy,

I've got a cross hair/circle insert that I really like a lot! The Lollypop just doesn't seem to do it fer me. Possibly jist the difference in shooter preferences?