Question about brass framed revolvers (New Pics)

[Rube Burrows]

I should be headed to Cabela's tomorrow to get me a pair of Navy 51s. I have heard that the brass framed pistols that recreat the Reb. pistols of the civil war are not as strong. I have even see them said to be more of a display gun. I guess my question is how strong are they? Should I go ahead and get one with the steel frame or would the brass be okay?




Well I decided to go ahead and get a pair of 1851 Navy. I picked them up from Cabela's yesterday. I got the Reb. models mostly cause they were about 50 dollars difference and I wanted to get a belt and holsters for them also along with the powder, primers, bore butter, balls and other things. Here is a pic of the ones I got though.

[Fingers McGee]

As long as you don't shoot hot loads through it; a brass framed '51 Navy should last a long time. 

FM

[Paladin UK]

FWIW...........

I`ve had my Brass framed Spiller `n Burr fer about 10 yrs and shoot it quite a lot 19gns Black under a ball and its still as good as when I first got it!!

Just dont over stoke em and they`ll last as long as most Eyetalian pistolas  

Paladin (What lurvs his S&B  ) UK

[Forty Rod]

As long as you don't shoot hot loads through it; a brass framed '51 Navy should last a long time. 

FM

How hot can you load a .36 using BP? 

[Major 2]

If there is the option..then go steel ....as stated Brass is OK for light loads..

But there are benefits for steel  ...should you wish to convert to cartridge down the road .. the resale of steel frames do stay higher..

[Rube Burrows]

Thanks guys. I am still unsure if I am going with the .36 or the .44. I also like the 60 Army except for the round barrel. I just don tlike it quite as much although I may end up getting a pair later on.

[Dalton Masterson]

My first c&b pistol was a brass framed 51 from Cabelas. It was great for the first 200 rounds or so. That was when I was loading per the instruction booklet to the letter. Was super accurate, and was not shooting loose at all.
THEN, all hell broke loose when the cylinder stop spring broke. The cylinder overrotated just enough to still fire, but not be lined up with the barrel perfectly. It ripped the cylinder pin clear out of the brass frame, making it a permanent wall hanger. If it had been a steel framed revolver, I think it would have hammered the wedge and wedge slots badly, but not destroyed the pistol.

My vote from then, has been steel framed guns. (But I also shoot full loads now, unlike then)
DM

[Dick Dastardly]

Used with due care and proper loads, the brass frame pistols are fine.  One slight advantage to brass frame guns is that dissimilar metals tend to wear smooth while similar or same metals tend to gald.  In other words, the different metals seem to more or less lubricate each other.  DJ can probably jump in here with a better explanation.

So, with use and care, brass frame guns can become very smooth, even smoother than slicked up all steel guns.

The thing is, as already stated adequately, brass frame guns are NOT as strong.  I like their looks and that's why I hang on to my brace of very old ROAs.  The frames are steel, but the backstrap and squareback triggerguard are brass.  I like their cool looks.

DD-DLoS

[Yettoblaster]

...The frames are steel, but the backstrap and squareback triggerguard are brass.  I like their cool looks.

DD-DLoS

I hadn't ever stopped to worry about brass backstraps until now.
My brass framed '58 Rem Army .44 C&B has digested several hundred lil' scoops of propellent -not ALL real light- and still works, though I'm looking forward to putting my STEEL framed .36 version into service soon.

The brass IS pretty though.

[Fingers McGee]

How hot can you load a .36 using BP? 

My poor choice of words Forty Rod.  I shoulda said full chamber loads.

FM

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

A 36 cal brass framed revolver may be alright, but I recommend against a 44 cal one. Anybody who does not believe me is welcome to inspect my poor old, wall hanger 44 cal brass framed Uberti.

I bought it new in 1968 when I was just a young whippersnapper. In those days nobody ever mentioned anything about the possibility that the frame might stretch with heavy loads. So I regulalrly loaded it with 30 grains of powder and a round ball. Then a long time went by without shooting it. I brought it down to the range a few years ago to fool around with it and discovered it was shootng so high I had trouble keeping it on the paper. That's when I noticed that when the wedge was snugged up so that the barrel/cylinder gap was correct, the barrel pointed noticably up.

There are those who say a brass frame does not really stretch, instead what happens is the steel arbor the cylinder revolves around gets pulled forward in the relatively soft metal. Whatever the case, all those 30 grain loads did a number on my old Uberti and the barrel now points permanently up when the wedge is snugged in.

The story would probably not be so bad with a 36 cal Navy, because the smaller ball weighs less and will generate less recoil. It is the recoil that stretched the frame. Besides, I don't believe brass framed Confederate Navy copies were ever made in 44 cal anyway.

If it wuz me, I'd spend the money and go for the steel frame. I'll never buy another brass framed C&B, but I'm thinking of buying a pair of steel framed 1860 Armies.

P.S. My old Uberti is the one with the round barrel. I recommend against it, or any brass framed 44.

[sundance44`s]

One thing about they brass framed pistols ..they cost a fist full of dollars ..and for a few dollars more you can have a steel frame pistol ...I doubt you`ll ever wear out .
Brass and steel opose each other , use a brass screw to put together 2 pieces of steel and it will never stay tight. The steel parts are ferrous and the brass is not .

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Joey Guns!

The other pards have pretty well covered it. 

PROS of a brass framed Colt 36 Cal.:

     Brass looks cool
     The purchase price doesn't hurt so badly
     Pretty accurate representations of guns made by the Confederates
     Brass looks coo ... Did I say that already?
     

CONS of similar Colt-type guns:

     They ARE weaker and will shoot loose with full or heavy loads, even with a 36 - but MORE so and MUCH quicker with a 44
     
Additional point to consider:

     NO - none - keine - zip - zilch - nada ..... brass-framed Colt 1860 style OR Remington NMA guns were ever made "back in the day" so if you care about authenticity, this is something to consider.
     NO Rebel factories made any brass framed "copies" of the 1851 Colt style guns in 44 caliber; see authenticity above.  One company, Griswold & Gunnison (IF I remember right) did make an 1851 styled round barrel gun in 44 ... but they also used steel for the frame.  Considering that G&G made fewer (again, IF IRC)) than 2000 guns, and MOST were brass-framed 36 cals., well again - here's that "authenticity" thing.  (It's important to ME.  ... and many others - but YOU get what makes you happy!)


If you really like brass framed guns, and their price ... you might consider the Pietta version of the Spiller & Burr like Paladin mentioned.  MOST folks will think it's a brass Remington, until they see it up close.  It's authentic, the list price is less than $225 - and you CAN even get it in kit form from Dixie, I think - and MOST IMportantly - being a SOLID frame gun with a topstrap over the cylinder, it'll handle any BP 36 cal. load you can stuff in it!


Yer mileage may vary ........ 

[Rube Burrows]

Well I went to Cabelas today for the 1860 armies and they only had one so I opted not to get one. I was looking again on Cimarron's website and now I am really looking hard at the Confederate Leech and Rigdon pistol in this link.

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/BlkPowder/BlkPowder-OF-Opener.htm

Tell me what you guys think. It looks like only the Back Strap and Trigger Guard are brass. Would this be better?

[Major 2]

"Well I went to Cabelas today for the 1860 armies and they only had one so I opted not to get one"

I understand you can't/shouldn't own JUST one  ( 5 here ..1 original , 2 Second gen and 2 1st. mod. Richards conversions )

Uberti's copy of the Leech and Rigdon (Cimarron) is a good choice, it's much like the Navy in handling,
and If your not interested in the Octagon Barrel.
The Navy was far more plentiful ( even for a Confederate ) if that concerns you, and the London Navy is all steel (Frame , TG and Backstraps.
I point out again, just in cast you want the convert to CF at some point say with an R&D Drop -in or his (or Krist's) full gated kit, go the Navies.

A Leech and Rigdon will of course be a bit more unique with it's round barrel, and I think I recall reading Kennry @ R&D's Navy cyl could drop -in but don't hold me to that

[Rube Burrows]

I want to thank you all again. I have been looking at so many of the BP pistols here lately and you guys have answered my questions without hesitation. You have given me some good pointers for now and the future if I want to convert. Thanks

[Steel Horse Bailey]

That Leech & Rigdon will do fine.  The warnings about brass pertain mainly to the frame itself, not the triggerguard and gripstrap.

Have fun!!

Keep yer powder dry!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

It is the frame that takes the pounding of recoil, and might get battered out of shape. Not the trigger guard or backstrap. Mechanically, those parts will not be damaged by heavy loads, it is the frame that is important.

Historically, being softer than iron or steel, brass was easier to machine, so the the South often used brass instead of iron or steel for the frames because they did not have as many machine shops capable of machining iron and steel as the industrial North did. But with the trigger guard and backstrap, it did not really matter. Many Colts had brass backstaps and/or trigger guards.

[Major 2]

... "Many Colts had brass backstaps and/or trigger guards."

Quite so...I did not mean to imply any weakness in Brass TG & back-straps , I mention the London Navy & it's steel TG & BS
only as an option with some additional uniqueness and/or as Blockade run Confederate side arm...

I have one Navy ( a 2nd Gen Colt ) with it's Silver Plated Brass TG & BS, I have given considerable thought to have it converted by R&D.
Just one obstacle, the cost  , so the London Conversion Taylor's has, looks mighty good too... But then so does the 2nd Model Richards I also want.... Dang decisions.

Sometime I wish, I had more money, than good looks ! 

[Rube Burrows]

so what powder do you guys reccomend for the pistols that we have been talking about?