Cimmaron 1866

[Noz]

Let's try this again. I lost a sentence on the original post.

I bought a Cimmaron 1866 in 44/40

What do the Cimmaron/Uberti barrels mic?

.428? .429? .430?

[Pettifogger]

Each gun might be a little different, but it is supposed to be a nominal .429".

[Fox Creek Kid]

Slug it & use bullets 0.001 larger (if they will chamber which depends on case neck thickness, Win. being the thinnest).

[Noz]

I found it on their website(Cimarron) all Uberti 44/40 are nominal .429

[Dick Dastardly]

Ever since Elmer Kieth went and formalized the 44 Magnum along with Remington and S&W most 44 caliber guns are made to that standard.  They settled on .429 and now I think most 44-40s are made in that size.  Of course, the foreign companies will run +/- .001" and call it .429.

I've slugged my guns and all my 44 Magnums do mike at .429", but that's all American made stuff.  Rugers, S&Ws and Brownings.  Well, ok, the Brownings are made in Japan, but they get the bore size right.

FWIW, it helps when I'm selling Mav Dutchman Big Lube™ bullet molds cuz they drop bullets that easily size to .429".

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Cimarron's website lists the standard Uberti specs for their 44-40 rifles as .429. It is a specification, nothing more. They can vary. My Uberti made 44-40 '73 slugged out at .427 and I did it several times just to make sure. My Uberti made 44-40 Henry slugged out at .429.

[Noz]

My 44 mag sizing die is .4295. I'll make an attempt at slugging but I think I'll be alright unless the chamber is tight.

[Dick Dastardly]

FWIW, when I run into pards having accuracy issues with 44 Cal (pistol) rifles, I usually have 'em try some .430" Mav Dutchman bullets.  For reasons that escape me, that extra thousandth of an inch sometimes makes all the difference.  I've seen rifles go from 3moa or greater down to sub moa groups.

Listen to yer gun.  It's talkin' to ya.

DD-DLoS

[Noz]

Yeah, DD. Great idea but your website say I can't have a mold for 6 months.

[Gripmaker]

Noz,  Here is one for the books. My Uberti 66 is their nominal .429 but chamber seems to be a bit tight so I can size to .429 in Winchester but need to go to .427 in all others. The kicker is that with all components except bullet dia., the same, she shoots to same point of impact no matter which you use.  According to the laws of physics and ballistics this should not happen. However, laws supposedly were made to be broken.

[Noz]

I've been all over the internet and the only 44-40 cases I've found are Starline. May be snug.

[Gripmaker]

Try resizing to .427 and see if the initial "bump" of BP ignition doesn't upset the bullet to .429 to fit the bore. Have recovered a "few" bullets that have done just that. BP seems to do a better job of this than smokeless.  As for the brass situation...Starline is the best!

[Black Powder]

I've been all over the internet and the only 44-40 cases I've found are Starline. May be snug.

Are 44/40 supplies generally harder to find?  I've been planning on getting my rifle in 44/40 for historical reasons.  Don't want to just look at it...

BP

[Noz]

Not impossible but not as easy as 38 specials.
I was convinced that the 44-40 was worth the effort after seeing a pard trying to get a .45 1866 to run on black powder for the first time. It was a mess.
44-40 was designed to run on blackpowder so problems are greatly lessened.
Can't wait til mine gets here.

[Griff]

Not impossible but not as easy as 38 specials.
I was convinced that the 44-40 was worth the effort after seeing a pard trying to get a .45 1866 to run on black powder for the first time. It was a mess.
44-40 was designed to run on blackpowder so problems are greatly lessened.
Can't wait til mine gets here.

I just don't understand that.  I've been shootin' an 1873 in .45 Colt loaded with BP since 1987 and have yet to have any real problems associated with the use of BP.  When I tried Pyrodex, I had more problems than shootin' the real black, but... I could still run thru a stage or 3 or 4 before I had to squirt down the lifter with some carb or brake cleaner.   (Same stuff as Gun Scrubber at ½ the cost).  More problems when I used a smokeless lube, but very few after switchin' to SPG.  Have shot 4 EOTs, 2 Williams shoots, 4 National Shootouts @ Raton, and untold number of Annual matches here in TX and OK over the intervening years with the same gun and combo, using BP each and every time...
But... enjoy yer .44-40, it's also a fine cartridge and is historically correct for the period and firearm.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Are 44/40 suplies generally harder to find?  I've been planning on getting my rifle in 44/40 for historical reasons.  Don't want to just look at it...

Howdy

I shoot 44-40 in all my CAS rifles, 45 Colt in all my CAS pistols. Generally speaking, my experience is that yes, 44-40 brass is a bit harder to find than 45 Colt. Also, 44-40 is usually a bit more expensive than 45 Colt. Since my 44-40 rifles eject their brass onto the ground, I always wind up coming home with a few less than I came with, whereas I always come home with all my 45 Colt revolver brass. It's just part of the price I have decided to pay to use the cartridge in my rifles.

44-40 was designed to run on blackpowder so problems are greatly lessened.

Well, 45 Colt was designed to fire Black Powder too, so that statement doesn't really address the issue. But I understand your drift. You will often see on this board and other boards the statement that since 44-40 is a bottleneck cartridge it is better suited for Black Powder than the straight cased 45 Colt. That is a misconception. It is the fact that 44-40 brass happens to be much thinner than 45 Colt brass that accounts for its generally superior performance with BP, the cartridge shape has nothing to do with it. High pressure gas has no problem going around a corner, and the taper on the 44-40 is so slight that it is almost non-existant. 44-40 brass tends to run around .007 thick at the case mouth, 45 Colt tends to run around .012 thick. That is why 44-40 expands to seal the chamber better than 45 Colt, not the shape of the case.

It is also true that some 45 Colt rifles will do better with Black Powder than others. One may get through 3 or 4 stages without any problems, another may not. I have been corresponding with another shooter on this board who is having problems with his rifle locking up after almost every stage. It can vary from rifle to rifle. For what it's worth, my 44-40 '73 and Henry will go through an entire 8 stage, or even 10 stage match with no attention to them at all. The fired brass ejects looking more like it was fired with Smokeless than BP, there is almost no blowby at all. Almost no fouling at all gets back into the carrier area. Combine that with using Big Lube bullets, and the fouling in my bore stays moist so that I don't lose any accuracy and don't have to swab my bore at all.

So I put up with having to go through a bit more effort to buy my brass and load it.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

[Black Powder]

Thanks, folks.  DJ, I knew your were a 44/40 rifle & 45 cal SAA kinda pard.  I'm not likely to be shooting a thousand rnd/yr.  Still, as I plan on (or expect to) do the reloading bit, it's important to look at things long term.  Really wanted to get a sense for ease of aqcuiring brass.  I assume BigLube bullets are easy to come by (finished).

Apologies for the distraction.

Thanks.

BP

[Driftwood Johnson]

I assume BigLube bullets are easy to come by (finished).

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

I only know of 3 sources for cast and sized Big Lube bullets. There may be more, but this is all I know of. There's Mason Stillwell, but I'm not sure if he's doing it anymore. There's Springfield Slim. And there are my pards Iron Pony and Swansea Slim who market them as Slim Pony bullets. I usually cast my own, but I got a little bit lazy this year and had Slim Pony ship me 500 Mav-Dutchman bullets as cast without sizing or lubing. I'll size and lube them myself.

[Sgt. Jake]

   I will second Driftwoods recomendation of Slim Pony bullets. I only shoot about 100 rds. of 38 s a year with BP,so I get them from Pony. 38 Big Lube Snakebites,cast from pure lead and a great BP lube,a great product.       Adios  Sgt. Jake

[Black Powder]

Thanks for the referrals.  Maybe I should reconsider the assumptions about not casting my own!

More stuff to learn.  And budget for.  I appreciate the advice.

BP