Plinkin' loads for 45-70

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I hope to attend the GAF Grand Muster this October. The course of fire specifies 100+ rifle rounds.  I may use my 45-70 for at least part of that, as will others with Trapdoor or Sharps (etc) carbines.  These rounds need only to be good for 100 yards, so they don't need to put a crimp on the wallet by using 70 (ish) grains of BP or sub pushin' a 405 or 535 gr. bullet!  I am thinking strictly about economy here - and the steel targets.

I'm thinkin' some 100 yd. plinkin' rounds might be in order here!

Anyone got any safe, reduced loads (BP of course!) for the 45-70?  I'm thinkin' along the lines of my 250 gr RNFP pushed by around 40/45 grs of 2f or 3f.  I'll need a filler, I guess - I've never loaded a "light load" in BP!

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

SHB



PS, if ya have any great smokeyless type similar loads, I'll take that info, too - but I doubt I'll use those rounds THERE!  I DO, however, shoot at an indoor range where BP is pro-hibb ... proh-heb ... probiteded ... not allowed. 

[Ranch 13]

I like a 350 gr bullet with a full 70 gr charge of Cartridge, and a .030 fiber wad for offhand targets less than 300 yds out. Plenty of zip to get there, and not so much recoil to be a bother. Biggest problem with reducing bp loads with lite bullet you end up with so dang much filler in the case, and accuracy don't seem to be what it should.
Look at Accurates web load guide or the Lyman 48th book for some good 5744 charges. I like 5744 alot for days when I just want to make some racket here around the house but don't have the gumption to clean cases afterward.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I seem to recall the 45-70 load for the trapdoor carbines used the same 400 grain bullet as the rifle load, but only about 55 grains of powder. The resulting empty space in the case was taken up with cardboard or fiber wads. You could probably get away with the same thing with a lighter bullet as long as you filled up the case with some sort of filler. However bear in mind that most 45-70s use .458 or .459 diameter bullets, while 45 Colt uses bullets only .452 or .454 in diameter. You will probably get poor accuracy and leading if you use a bullet of too small a diameter in your 45-70.

[Dick Dastardly]

Springfield Slim has taken my DD 45-70 RNFP 400 grain bullet and shortened it up by one lube grove.  It drops at around 300 grains and mikes around .459".  This might be just the ticket.  Send him an emule and see what he says.

His web site is in my links section at www.biglube.com.

DD-DLoS

[Plum Loco]

The trapdoor Springfield book by JS Wolf  is a MUST read by anyone shooting 45-70 and / or Trapdoors .  In the book is a really reduced practice load with a .457 round ball and a small charge of BP . The ball is seated deep in the case on the powder , and I dripped a small amount of candle wax down upon the ball after loading [ not called for , I'm just obsesive ] , anyway for short ranges it shot very well and rang the metal gongs at the range .  Sorry that I can not find the book right now for the details of powder amount .  But this load should work for what you want to do .   

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, all. 

[Hell-Er High Water]

I have a similar load that I use in the 50-70.  I was trying to duplicate as close as possible the original 50-70 carbine load for use in my carbine.

It consists of a Rapine, 350 gr lead bullet (with one large lube groove similar to the Big Lube bullets), 3.1 cc (approx 45 gr) of FFg powder and a tuft of PURE cotton that fills the case to the mouth before seating the bullet.  The cotton when compressed holds the powder in place against the head of the case as performs the same function as a stack of wads.

If you do something similar to this for the 45-70 be sure and use PURE cotton.  Pure cotton will burn to ash, synthetic cotton will melt into goo and can cause problems with barrels and cases.  A test for pure cotton is to hold a small tuft in a pair of tweezers and light it with a match.  If it burns to ash you have what you need.  I have found that cotton from pill bottles is usually pure cotton and not synthetic.  It can also be purchase in drug stores.

As DD mentioned, Springfield Slim's modified Big Lube bullet may be just the ticket for this load.

HHW

[Pitspitr]

I hope to attend the GAF Grand Muster this October.

"hope" ? Repeat after me, "I will attend the GAF Grand Muster this October. I will attend the GAF Grand Muster this October. I will attend..."

The Gallery load Plum Loco is talking about uses 7-8 grains of 3f.  It produces so little smoke that I doubt that anyone would realize your shooting bp at your indoor range.

If you want to use carbine loads I think 55gr. of ff will fill R-P brass without filler as long as you don't compress it, but you will want to double check to make certain.

As far as our targets are concerned, don't worry about denting them with an all lead 405gr. bullet pushed by 70gr of FF. That's the load I intend to use. The only time I've dented my own steel is when I had a 535 gr bullet, pushed by 70gr of FF that tumbled and hit the steel flat on the side.

[Pitspitr]

Hi again SHB

I was just re-reading the Battle Rifle spec.s and noticed this line-

"-Era single shots, ie trapdoors, Martini Henrys, Rolling blocks, are encouraged, loaded to spec.  Course of fire may be different from that of the repeaters at the match directors discretion."

If you want to load to mil-spec check out this book:

http://www.the45-70book.com/

Of course the carbine load IS mil-spec and the book will tell you how to load it.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, Pitspitr, Sir!

"I will attend the GAF Grand Muster this October. I will attend the GAF Grand Muster this October. I will attend..."

I'm repeating, over and over and over and over...

To be honest, I'm a lot less worried about the target steel than I am the dent in my wallet.  I can shoot more if I can make a suitable "plinkin' ' load - 'tho look at this:  my proposed 250 gr boolit & 40-45 grs of 3f ain't perzackly a LIGHT load!  It's ONLY light compared to the standard load!  It still works out to be a rough equivalent of an original 45 Colt load or even what might be considered a 45 Colt +P - if that were possible! 

It's probably a moot point anyway, as my chances of the (hoped for) Trapdoor Carbine grow dimmer and dimmer.  I possibly will bring my Sharps, but I DOUBT that'll be my "main match" rifle, so to speak.  I don't think I can work up a "Battle Rifle" class weapon by then - 'tho there IS hope for my 1888 Commission Rifle, I suppose ...

[Pitspitr]

To be honest with you, what I'm the most concerned about is my shoulder. I guess I'm a wus.

[Wills Point Pete]

 Get you a big box of Remington 250 grain .455 swaged lead hollowbased RNFPs and a bag of Walters .060 fiber wads. Fill the hollow base with soft BP lube, pour forty or so grains of BP into the case and put enough wads in to fill the excess space and seat the bullet.
See if that is enough lube. If not replace a couple wads with lube and repeat until you have a nice lube star on the muzzle.
That Remmie boolit is pure lead, it should slug up just fine no matter how big your bore. I have been casting bullets for almost fifty years now and I have to really work hard to cast a bullet more accurate than the Remington swaged lead.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

MORE great hints:  Thanks!

W.P. Pete, that was along the lines of what I was thinkin!  I might have to use my bullets, but in essence, that's what I was hoping to find out - whether that's a feasible solution.  And I just Might be able to get some of those Remington boolits - I sure didn't know they were A) pure lead, and B) hollow based.  Are they the ones advertised by Midway? (and no doubt others?) This one, perhaps? - 'tho it doesn't specify RNFP, swaged or hollow based:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=846649

[Charlie Bowdre]

Hi Steel Horse
I pretty new at this but I do shoot a 45-70 Trapdoor Officers Model by H&R. I reload a 405 gr. RNFP sized .457 with 55 gr 2ff Goex. I use a bit of filler and a .062 veg fiber wad   which seats the bullet just nice. The bullets I have pan lubed with the old standby beeswax and Crisco  This load I worked up with some help from great guys here at CC.

I have only shot in two  matches  , targets at 100 and 150 yards . Tied for first  at 100 and 3rd at the  150  target.
Nice load , lots of boom bang and smoke! But doesn't punish the old shoulders too much .
Don't know if it is on interest but it works for me.
Enjoy
Dutchy

[Dusty Tagalon]

My plinking load for 45/70, 20 grains bp, wonder wad, & .457 ball pressed down on top of wonder wad. I don't know if it will decrease case life. It is accurate enough at CAS distance.

Dusty

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dusty;  That is an Elmer Keith load from his book "Punkin Rollin'"

Dutchie;  Isn't that the traditional carbine load?

[Charlie Bowdre]

I have no idea , started off with 40 gr and worked around to the 55 gr load. did I do something wrong??
Dutchy

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dutchy;  What's wrong with success?

[Charlie Bowdre]

Nuttin Sir Charles , just scared I had upset some apple cart. I love shooting the 45-70 ,lots of fun and actually hit some targets. Might try some of the lighter loads for fun.
D

[w44wcf]

Steel Horse Bailey,

Historically speaking, waayyy back when, factories offered "Armory Practice" .45-70 cartridges.
One of the "Armory " cartridges was loaded with 20 grs. of b.p. and a 240 gr. bullet.

I have an original factory loaded cartridge and found that the powder was loaded loose with plenty of airspace!
.
I loaded some replication cartridges using the 457190 .45 Colt bullet that I upset to .459" diameter.  Accuracy @ 100 yards was surprisingly good at around 3" to 4" from a trapdoor.  Velocity was 860 f.p.s.  It's been awhile since I did this but I recall that I got more consistant results by placing a .006" thick paper disc. on top of the powder to hold it back against the primer.

It's nice to recreate history!