Henry transition model

[Six Shot]

Any body shootin' a "transition model" Henry (not an 1866) that has a loading gate in the receiver (without the magazine lever) and a short stubby forearm grip that slides along the tubular magazine?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, 6 Shot!

I don't have one.  They look cool to me.  In my personal way of looking at things, I go in for as much authenticity as I can, considering.  As such, I'm a firm believer in authenticity.  While this replica apparently is pretty authentic to a few known guns, I've heard that only a handful (maybe 6-12 - or less) actually existed. 

If you simply like the gun and plan to shoot it at your favorite range, GO for it!

If you're a SASS shooter, you'll get plenty of "style points."  GO for it!


If you're really into authenticity, and perhaps an NCOWS member, your persona - IF you're modeling yourself as a Factory Gun Rep or perhaps a Hardware/gun store business owner, then maybe. 

PS - PERSONALLY, I'd leave OFF the wooden forearm (which may cost extra, anyway) and shoot it like that.  But that's just me.  It would make a GREAT "Hollyweird Henry." 

[Six Shot]

Bailey,

Although there weren't many made, they were authentic although they were not "military issue" as far as I know. I don't know how "stylin" it would be for CAS but I think it would definitely be faster to load and safer to operate (if the magazine spring lever on a "traditional Henry" gets caught on something and snaps down on the rounds below it setting off a chain magazine discharge). I came across one brand new in the box and I couldn't resist!  It should arrive sometime next week. I'll let you know how much I like it (compared to my traditional Henry) after I shoot it in a match.

[Possum Toed Rick]

Six Shot,
     I have a friend here in Austria that has one, I've shot it a couple of times and it shoots as good as my normal Uberti Henry, I like the fact that you can reload it through the gate, much faster. The Forestock is also nice as you don't need to wear gloves or do the hop. I ordered one for myself but it might take a while to get it as Uberti only made a few hundred for the American market. They didn't sell so well so they are unsure if they are going to make another run. You Henry shooters across the pond had better get on the ball and order some more so I can get one. Unfortunatly (for us) the European CAS market is second place to the American market and we only get your leftovers or flops.
Rick

[Six Shot]

I agree with you Rick on all that you said but the Henry transitions didn't sell very well here so you may have a chance of pickin' one up. I just happened to run across one for sale on GunsAmerica so I grabbed it while the grabbin' was good.
I 'll keep my eyes "peeled" for ya'!

Six Shot

[Steel Horse Bailey]

6 Shot, Howdy!

Like I said, I think they're cool.  Question:  is the magazine still solid - as in part of the barrel?  That would help it to keep the near-legendary Henry Accuracy - due to the stiffness because of that extra steel on/under the barrel.

Or is it a separate tube - which would basically make it a '66 without a forearm?

That may seem a stupid question, but ...

I know how I'd WANT it to be! 



Keep in mind - MY main interest is authenticity.  In my character as a Cavalry Soldier or recently retired Cav Sergeant, it'd be VERY unlikely that I'd have one - which is important to ME.  (Just so ya know that I'm not totally delusional, I also have a Ruger Vaquero Custom Birdhead gripped Sheriff's Model that I don't shoot in NCOWS.  But I like it so much, I ain't partin' with it unless somebody offers me whut it's worth to ME.    It isn't authentic, but it's cool!    )

[Fox Creek Kid]

Keep in mind - MY main interest is authenticity.

With that in mind let me state that the Uberti "transition" is neither fish nor fowl, so to speak. It has a forearm yet it is wood & not brass which the approx. six Briggs Patent rifles had. I highly recommend the Herbert Houze book on Winchester for photos and history. Also, I think Uberti may have sold more here if it were chambered in 44-40.

[Coffinmaker]

Yep.  I've got two of 'em.  One from Taylors and one I built.  The are a hoot to play with.  I did order mine from Tayolors with the little fore-end, but don't use it.  Looks cool in the gun rack, but it does slide around on the magazine tube.  I prefer a firm grip.  Real fun guns.
The loading gate, is a copy of the original "kings Patent" gate, not the later spring flat ladle.

Coffinmaker

[Six Shot]

Bailey, I just got a call from my local FFL dealer. It arrived!     I'm going to get it in a 'lil bit. I'll let you know if the magazine is a solid part of the barrel like the original Henry's are or if its a separate tube under the barrel like an Uberti 1866.

Coffinmaker, I know the sliding forearm is wood but I didn't know it was brass on the original transitions. That's interesting. Even though its wood and not authentic I imagine brass would have heated up quite a bit kinda' defeating its purpose      so I think wood is more practical and will serve the purpose of holding on to it but I won't know if the fact that it slides will be a problem until I shoot it. I can't wait! 

I mighta' shot it this weekend in a SASS shoot but its supposed to rain alot so the match will probably be washed out but there's another match the following weekend!

I'll keep you-all posted . . . . 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

From the photo at Talylors it appears to me their 'transition model' Henry has the  barrel and magazine fabricated from one bar of steel, just like on the regular 1860 Henry. Taylors calls it a transitional 1866, but I'm sure we are talking about the same thing.

I have handled a couple of the transitional Henrys that Happy Trails of the Smith shop makes. Hap's approach is different. He takes a conventional Henry, cuts a loading gate into the frame, and adapts the gun to work with the loading gate. Hap's loading gate is a flat slab of steel, not a ladel. Hap fills the slot under the magazine with a milled piece of bar stock, and secures the end of the barrel so it does not rotate any more. Hap usually leaves the gun without a forestock. I was visiting Hap one day and he showed me one of those wooden forestocks that Uberti uses for their conversion model. It is an extremely thin piece and just slips over the magazine. It is only held in place by friction.

Here is a link to Hap's transitional model:

http://www.thesmithshop.com/conversionhenry.html

A brass fore stock would have conducted heat better than wood, better than steel too. But the heat transfer would also have been dependent on how well the two pieces of metal fit each other. If it was a fairly loose fit the heat would not transfer at all as well from the steel to the brass as it would have if there was a lot of metal to metal contact. Any air between the two pieces acts as an insulator to efficient heat transfer.


Frankly, I think calling these rifles a transitional model is a bit of a misnomer. They were prototypes, nothing more. From what I have read, there were only about a half dozen made, and no two were alike. They were really just prototypes to iron out the bugs of the revolutionary new idea of loading the rifle through a side loading gate.

Personally, my steel framed Henry is distinctive enough for me. If I want to use a loading gate I'll break out my '73, '92, or 1894 Marlin.

[Six Shot]

Driftwood,

Its a Taylor's. I haven't picked it up from my FFL dealer yet (maybe tomorrow or Saturday) but I'm glad to hear the magazine is an integral part of the barrel like the original style Henry. Bailey had me wonderin'. As for the wooden sliding forearm not being brass, in my opinion wood is better than wearing a glove. If it doesn't feel right I'll take it off. The loading gate in the receiver will surely speed up loading during SASS matches and no magazine spring lever to get caught on something when the rifle is staged on tables, haybales, etc. I'm sure I'll continue to use my traditional Henry as well as my 1866 Yellowboy. Now I have a transition model  between the two to play with as well. They're all different and have a character of their own just like you, me, and Bailey. We're all different and all characters! 
Have fun with your Henry and maybe I'll see ya' at the match Sunday if it doesn't get rained out. Take care pard'.

[Coffinmaker]

OOPS!!  I missed the question Steel horse had.  The transition "model" from Tayors is a traditional Henry pattern barrel.  One piece.  Without the follower to actuate the end of the barrel, it doesn't rotate anymore.  It can be made to function and open if need be, but I haven't seen any need to.
Like most of the rifles we play with, it isn't "exact."  There were only about 7 prototypes built on the Henry frame before Winchester had the '66 nailed.  They did prototype all the possibilities.  One of the prototypes had a special piece of bar stock milled (like Happy Trails) to enclose the Magazine tube.  I personally prefer the open magazine.
They are really fun guns to play the game with. 
I have heard the run of guns produced for Taylors will probably be the only run.  They haven't caught on and sold well.  Don't actually know how true that is, but rumors is rumors.

Coffinmaker

[Pettifogger]

What's really interesting is that if you look at the actual drawings for King's Patent of May 22, 1866, (Patent No. 55,012) for the side loading magazine gate, it is virtually identical to the Transitional Henry gate that Uberti is using.  In fact, the patent shows it on a Henry.  After getting the basic patent, Winchester simplified it before the final version of the 66 went into production.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, y'all for the info about the magazine.  I'd heard (and it seems to have been correct) that there were only a handfull of real ones made - and basically each was probably a bit different than the others.

It sure is interesting.  The idea of a Henry barrel/mag with a side gate is pretty intriguing.  Sigh ... I guess I'll stick with my Improved Henry.   ('Tho I sure do wish that I HAD picked up the Henry I was offered when I was new to all things "Cowboy." ) 

[Six Shot]

Don't be sad Bailey. When you're shootin' your '66 "improved Henry" just think how many rifles we had to buy to get to where you're at! 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Don't be sad Bailey. When you're shootin' your '66 "improved Henry" just think how many rifles we had to buy to get to where you're at! 

Heck, I started this game with a '94 Winchester Trapper (44 M) then a '92 (45 Colt) followed by the Imp. Henry in 45 Colt.  (I still have the '92 and the '66.)

[kurt250]

you can see a henry transitional at the buffalo bill museum in cody wyoming. it doen't have a front hand guard but has a reciver loading gate that opens outward.i don't know if its center fire or rim fire. kurt250

[Peddler Parsons]

I got one last year at the IL. state shoot and love it (had a Marlin) it is the one pece barrel, easy to load but put a buck horn rear sight on it.
I did not like the fore arm moving (had to watch how you picked it up) so I drilled a hole through it and the solid part of the metal and put a 1/8' brass bolt init, still looks good and get lots of remarks about it. Also put a 1st generation short stroke in it to get rid of the 7" stroke now it is 5.5"
Love the rifle

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

Sixgun was kind enough to show me his new Transitional Henry on Sunday. Interesting to say the least. The barrel/magazine was made from the normal one piece Uberti Henry type of barrel. It still has the open slot running the length of the underside. The rotating part at the muzzle is fixed in position, and no longer rotates. Even though the magazine still has the open slot, there is no follower tab extending through the slot. This allows the rifle to have a wooden fore end. The fore end is not fastened in place on the rifle. It can be slid off by sliding it up to the muzzle. It is held captive on the barrel/magazine by fitting to the 'figure 8' contour of the barrel/magazine, but there is nothing fastening it in position.

The most interesting part of the gun is the loading gate. It is unlike any loading gate I have ever seen. The gate is a thin blued piece of steel that covers the loading port. The gate is hinged but it swings out to load the gun, not in as we are all used to on a lever gun. There is a leaf spring that provides tension to the gate to keep it either snapped in the closed postition, or snapped open. Under the gate is a small ramp that guides the rounds into the magazine.

Very interesting arrangement.

[Henry4440]

1866 Winchester Transition from Taylor's