'76 Muskets in Hawaii

[DJ]

I recently became aware that a significant proportion of the 1876 Winchester muskets was shipped to Hawaii to arm the royal Hawaiian forces in the early 1880's.  Houze discusses this in his book ("The Winchester Model 1876 Centennial Rifle") at some length, and then mentions that about half of those muskets have been identified by serial number in the records of the Citizens Guard of Hawaii (apparently a militia group formed or reactivated after the Hawaiian royal family was deposed). 

Does anyone know where this list is published?  Houze cites to a periodical, I believe it is "The Winchester Collector," but he never clearly says if the serial number list is actually published there.

Thanks--

DJ

[Buck Stinson]

DJ,
John Bell published a list of all the guns used by the CGH.  This list includes '76 carbines, muskets, 1886 rifles, 1885 High Walls, etc.  I have the list but can't find it.  I may be able to get another copy from a friend.  I'll let you know.  Unfortunately, records are incomplete and in many cases, serial numbers are not listed.  I'll let you know.

Adios,
Buck

[john boy]

Gundata has this but no serial numbers ... http://www.gun-data.com/winchester_model_1876.html

[Buck Stinson]

DJ,
I have the information I was looking for on the CGH 1876 Winchesters.   There is way too much to include here, so please tell me exactly what you are looking for and I will let you know.

Adios,
Buck

[DJ]

Hey Buck--

Thanks for the offer.  I don't have the SN memorized (I did once, but I think that part of my mental disk got overwritten).  I'll go find it again and PM it to you.

Thanks--

--DJ

[Ken_from_Hawaii]

Hi Buck,

I think I may have a CGH 1873, any chance you might be able to help with my serial number too?  I found that Mr. Bell had passed away, and haven't had a chance to hit the Hawaii state archives yet.  Anyone happen to have information from John A. Bell?  Thanks!

[DJ]

Ken--

The archives are pretty cool--a small, rectangular, modern glass-and-stainless steel structure under a MASSIVE banyan tree on the grounds of Iolani Palace, with the assorted doves, parrots, small birds, and mynahs flying, flittering, running, jumping, squawking, and squabbling all around (those who have spent any time watching mynah birds in Hawaii know what I mean).

A few years ago I copied all of the info I could find regarding old firearm serial numbers out of the archives.  They're not very well organized (the 1876s are the best), and require some interpolation, but I'd be happy to look and see if yours is among them.

--DJ

[Ken_from_Hawaii]

Hi DJ,

I just went yesterday, and you're right that the 1876 info is the most complete.  A lot of the 44 carbines listed don't have serial numbers.  I believe the serial is 372665B.  Thank you for any assistance with this.

[Buck Stinson]

Ken,
I do not have any listings for the model 1873 as being CGH issue firearms.

[Baltimore Ed]

I don?t guess my musket went to Hawaii as it dates from 1891. Neat old rifles.

[DJ]

The records I reviewed are for the Hawaiian military, including the Citizen's Guard, during the period between about 1888 and 1898 and possibly a few years after that (the records are primarily unit rosters with many "commissioning" dates in 1897 and 1898, so it stands to reason that the records may have been used for at least a brief period after 1898).  In the rosters, assigned or "possessed" weapons (a small proportion of the listed arms are recorded as privately owned) are usually listed by the manufacturer's name and the caliber, but not model.  Winchesters listed as .45-75 are presumed to be 1876 models because of the caliber and serial number range. 

There are listings for quite a few 45-70 Winchesters which seem likely to be either 1885 single shots or 1886s.  There are also scattered listings of "44" caliber Winchesters.  I feel that one, SN 19495 in "44" caliber, is probably a .73--the serial number would make it an 1876 manufacture if it were a '73.  It seems less likely to be an 1866, which would have been manufactured in 1868--somewhat out of synch with most Hawaiian guns, though not impossible.   Another isolated listing, Winchester SN 463699 in .44 caliber, also seems likely to be an 1873.  There is a listing for a "38" caliber Winchester SN 2384.  I would guess this was a .38-40 Model 1873, but a Model 1885 in .38-55 might also make sense (a Winchester expert  might be able to figure it out).  There's another Winchester listed as caliber "38-45," SN 63939.  Any guesses?  Another example, listed as a "Winchester carbine," caliber .44, SN 643051 doesn't make sense to me--if it was an 1873 model, it would seem to fall outside of the date range for the records I reviewed, but I don't see another model it would likely be.  I believe this weapon is recorded more than once in the records, so perhaps less likely to be a "typo," but could be.  Serial number 19806 and 220111, both in "44" caliber, seem likely to be 1873s, although the lower number would also make sense as a model 1892. 

One particularly interesting unit for purpose of the Model 1873 discussion, the "Mounted Reserve" of the Citizen's Guard lists 40 Winchesters of "44" caliber, most of which are recorded as government-owned.  A few entries do not list a serial number, some list 4- and 5- digit serial numbers, but about three quarters of them fall within the serial number range from 431661 to 471242.  From the date range calculator I've been using, these could be 1873s (manufactured between 1892 and 1894, which would be an appropriate date range), and perhaps the number is great enough to show up as a bulk purchase in the Winchester records.  Quick!  Somebody go look! 

As with many things, history often involves educated (more or less) guesswork, so I could be completely off base and would welcome any corrections.

--DJ

[Ken_from_Hawaii]

The records I reviewed are for the Hawaiian military, including the Citizen's Guard, during the period between about 1888 and 1898 and possibly a few years after that (the records are primarily unit rosters with many "commissioning" dates in 1897 and 1898, so it stands to reason that the records may have been used for at least a brief period after 1898).  In the rosters, assigned or "possessed" weapons (a small proportion of the listed arms are recorded as privately owned) are usually listed by the manufacturer's name and the caliber, but not model.  Winchesters listed as .45-75 are presumed to be 1876 models because of the caliber and serial number range. 

There are listings for quite a few 45-70 Winchesters which seem likely to be either 1885 single shots or 1886s.  There are also scattered listings of "44" caliber Winchesters.  I feel that one, SN 19495 in "44" caliber, is probably a .73--the serial number would make it an 1876 manufacture if it were a '73.  It seems less likely to be an 1866, which would have been manufactured in 1868--somewhat out of synch with most Hawaiian guns, though not impossible.   Another isolated listing, Winchester SN 463699 in .44 caliber, also seems likely to be an 1873.  There is a listing for a "38" caliber Winchester SN 2384.  I would guess this was a .38-40 Model 1873, but a Model 1885 in .38-55 might also make sense (a Winchester expert  might be able to figure it out).  There's another Winchester listed as caliber "38-45," SN 63939.  Any guesses?  Another example, listed as a "Winchester carbine," caliber .44, SN 643051 doesn't make sense to me--if it was an 1873 model, it would seem to fall outside of the date range for the records I reviewed, but I don't see another model it would likely be.  I believe this weapon is recorded more than once in the records, so perhaps less likely to be a "typo," but could be.  Serial number 19806 and 220111, both in "44" caliber, seem likely to be 1873s, although the lower number would also make sense as a model 1892. 

One particularly interesting unit for purpose of the Model 1873 discussion, the "Mounted Reserve" of the Citizen's Guard lists 40 Winchesters of "44" caliber, most of which are recorded as government-owned.  A few entries do not list a serial number, some list 4- and 5- digit serial numbers, but about three quarters of them fall within the serial number range from 431661 to 471242.  From the date range calculator I've been using, these could be 1873s (manufactured between 1892 and 1894, which would be an appropriate date range), and perhaps the number is great enough to show up as a bulk purchase in the Winchester records.  Quick!  Somebody go look! 

As with many things, history often involves educated (more or less) guesswork, so I could be completely off base and would welcome any corrections.

--DJ

DJ, thank you for that information.  I've had a couple of opportunities to since visit the Hawaii state archives.  I still haven't found my 1873 in there yet, but did manage to take a bunch of photos of the CGH records they have.  Here's a link in case you're ever interested: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPklDFjEnPdW-WTtMYX47Th599ary-QFr22vmWGbYNn4k-0Xs6u7IYP5_nX4jmYhw?key=bE5zTlZZbEJrdGZNRU90VHpNeEhWUTdqaGRIVEpR

Some recent photos of my CGH 1873: https://imgur.com/a/KBd65yX

[DJ]

Nice photos, Ken.  I always enjoy poring over gun-related historical records.

Here is a photo from the Hawaii Archives of Masonic Temple Squad 5 of the Citizen Guard, Hawaii, taken in 1895.  In a squad of 27 men (and one small boy, who appears to be unarmed), I think I see four Trapdoors, four 1876 Win Muskets, one 1876 Win Carbine, three Sharps-Borchardts, one Mod 1879 Rem Lee, seven full-length magazine Winchesters (I think they're '92s), maybe a couple shotguns, and a few others I can't quite identify.  I feel I should recognize the one tucked under the arm of the gent in the light-colored suit near the center of front row, but just can't quite make it out, although some features suggest a rolling block. 

It looks like it was a fun, "bring your own gun" kind of rifle squad, but a logistical nightmare if it ever came to fighting.

[Roosterman]

I like that feller's stripey socks.

[Trailrider]

I have a M1886 Winchester in .45-70 that has "CGH" stamped on the buttstock. (Don't have access to the S/N right now. The rifle appears to have been reblued at sometime. I thought I had a magazine article on the subject, but can't find it now.    The s/n does fall within the range of the ones according to the article.

[Ken_from_Hawaii]

I have a M1886 Winchester in .45-70 that has "CGH" stamped on the buttstock. (Don't have access to the S/N right now. The rifle appears to have been reblued at sometime. I thought I had a magazine article on the subject, but can't find it now.    The s/n does fall within the range of the ones according to the article.

Trailrider, if you're able to obtain your serial number, I'd be happy to look if your Winchester is in there.

[ken1989]

I have a Win 1876 Musket (45-75) sn 28911 with a bayonet and scabbard.  I do not see mine on the list, but several with very close serial number.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

Gundata has this but no serial numbers ... http://www.gun-data.com/winchester_model_1876.html

That webpage includes the following remarks:

"1 large order of muskets were shipped to the Royal P[a]lace in Honolulu Hawaii for the Citizens Guard Of Hawaii these rifles were copper plated on all the internal parts and the ramrods , most serial numbers were consecutive to each other."

Does anyone know anything else about the copper plating of internal parts?  Is this something any of you have observed on your rifles?

[Roosterman]

First time I have heard of copper plating internal Winchester parts.

[DJ]

I've seen a few of these muskets but have not seen any copper-plated ramrods or any externally visible copper plating anywhere on any of them.  The only one I took apart did not have any copper plating anywhere.  It could have all been removed, but I did not get that impression.

I don't know the source of the information about the plating, but the information about the the 1876 musket shipment on that website also may not be accurate.   

Sources indicate that the 1876 muskets were purchased by the royal Hawaiian government under King Kalakaua in late 1882 to arm the royal Hawaiian military forces.  Those were formal military forces with uniforms, parades, a little artillery, and some cavalry.  A small force, but the real deal, at least as far as appearances and equipment go.

About ten years later, in January 1893, Hawaii "transitioned" to a republic, and the Citizens' Guard of Hawaii was formed as a militia force serving in both military and police roles.  From contemporary photos and archival records, the Citizens' Guard ended up with a lot of the 1876 muskets.  However, their "uniforms" appeared to be sport coats or whatever they happened to be wearing that day (but necessarily sporting a brimmed hat), and more than half were armed with a real hodge podge of other late-19th century weapons (Winchester models 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, and Hotchkiss, plus Remington Lee, rolling block, Peabody, trapdoor Springfield, Sharps Borchardt, and various other rifles, plus some shotguns and revolvers).  Their records only seem to account for about a quarter of the muskets purchased in 1882.

It doesn't make sense to me that the muskets ordered in 1882 were intended for a militia force that wouldn't even exist for another ten years.  And if that is what happened, I don't understand why the Citizens' Guard would be armed with such a motley assortment of arms instead of everyone having a musket.