Two guns, one in each hand?

Dick Dastardly · March 28, 2008, 08:28:27 AM

Will Ketchum brought up a point for me to consider. I shoot with a pistol in each hand, known in SASS as Gunfighter, and it's my preferred way to shoot pistols, depending on script and stage writing. So, even though there's not a "Gunfighter" category/class in NCOWS, would I be allowed to shoot with a pistol in each hand, usually alternating?

Thanks, sorry about the greenhorn questions but there's learnin' goin' on.

DD-DLoS

Quick Fire · March 28, 2008, 09:21:40 AM

DD, while there is not a gunfighter class in NCOWS, we allow our Posse's a lot of leeway in offering non-sactioned classes as they see fit, provided they stay within the guidelines of NCOWS. Now while I don't personally know of any club offering this type of class, perhaps you can petition to have it tried at what ever club you will be shooting at.

Steel Horse Bailey · March 28, 2008, 09:43:38 AM

I think he's talking about the upcoming Nationals, Jack.

This is just one member's opinion, but since not ALL stages are written for one pistol only, I don't see any problem in his shooting it this way. Will he have a speed advantage?

#1 - I don't know.

#2 - I don't care - I'd almost bet money (I don't normally bet ANYTHING) that he'll beat ME, whatever way he shoots! It's called practice! Competition is not my main goal - I got all the competition I wanted in Iraq ... and I'm still here.

Personally, I just hope Dick (and many others) can simply ATTEND! Winner or not. Don't forget, last year's winner (WC) was a newbie to NCOWS National competitions. It's all about the fun, not necessarily who wins. (We DO want to do well, 'tho.

)

~~Hell~~ Heck, I just hope I can BE there!

Deadeye Don · March 28, 2008, 09:54:14 AM

Based upon Dick's past postings I can almost guarantee that he doesnt want to use two guns for a competitive edge. Correct me if I am wrong Dick, but you are clearly not a "gamer". That being said, I will leave it up to the judges to decide his two gun fate.

Regards. Deadeye.

Trap · March 28, 2008, 10:09:55 AM

There is no by-law which prohibits shooting this way, though someone at a Natl. was given a proceedural (I think he expected it) several years ago. I'm sure if it is OKed by the posse putting on the shoot, it would be acceptable. jt

Trap · March 28, 2008, 10:14:32 AM

SHB, You have to be there! who else could mow down those rifle targets with a sabre.

Tjackstephens · March 28, 2008, 11:12:08 AM

If we are talking about the 08 National NCOWS shoot, I have written the stages to be shot one handgun at a time. Only one handgun in your hand at a time. The only stage I didn't write has something in your weak hand while you're shooting your handgun. What posses do in there monthly match is up to them. Sorry Dick, but hope we do see you at the National. Don't forget about the 45 colt championship.TJ

Irish Dave · March 28, 2008, 01:15:53 PM

DD:
I must admit I'm not fully versed in all the details of SASS' Gunfighter shooting class, but I think the style raises some problems for NCOWS (at least at the regional/national level) especially since we have no specific class for this shooting style.

Just as in TJ Stephens' example, many of our stages are not written for both pistols (10 rounds) to be shot back-to-back. This would seem to me, at first glance, to create a significant safety issue since the Gunfighter-style shooter would be shooting 5 then reholstering partially loaded revolvers. Not sure we'd want to go there.

I'm curious, though, how does SASS resolve this issue?

Steel Horse Bailey · March 28, 2008, 02:35:11 PM

Quote from: Trap on March 28, 2008, 10:14:32 AM
SHB, You have to be there! who else could mow down those rifle targets with a sabre.

Thanks, Trap!

I'm trying to remember the Gunfighter rules, but in SASS, the "gunfighter friendly" stages ARE written with the 10 targets shot back to back (one after the other and sometimes "dump" targets) so if the stage ISN"T written that way, it's not an issue. Only when 10 pistol targets in a row are written does the Gunfighter style come into play.

Don, I won't say that Dick is Gamey ... but you're right; I don't think he's a Gamer.

Dick - you (or someone) mentioned the 10-10-4 formula. You're more likely to have a 5-10-2-5-2 or something else along those lines. Plus, some will perhaps have NO shotgun ... or add a pocket pistol (provided, unless you have one yourself) ... or - I don't know: you may have to YODEL while shooting untimed targets that count for hits ONLY! (Shoot 'til ya miss) Wait - no yodeling THIS year.

But it WAS fun! (Isn't that what you heard, RCJ?!) THAT stage provides me with GREAT memories, John - and will 'til the day I die!!!

Also, Dick - if you do get to come, don't fergit yer Big Bore rifle. I don't remember how far you can shoot at the Evansville long range area, but I seem to recall it's a respectable distance.

gw · March 28, 2008, 05:22:02 PM

Quote from: Steel Horse Bailey on March 28, 2008, 02:35:11 PM

Also, Dick - if you do get to come, don't fergit yer Big Bore rifle. I don't remember how far you can shoot at the Evansville long range area, but I seem to recall it's a respectable distance.

Red Brush has metallic silhouettes(Rams) at 500meters(NRA reg.), so we might shoot this far?? (still spittin' distance with a good hocker

).

panhead pete · March 28, 2008, 06:05:08 PM

Howdy All,

I believe that as long as the hammer is on an "empty chamber" which may also be a "fired round", I believe he would be within the rules and safe. Any thoughts?

Panhead

Dick Dastardly · March 28, 2008, 06:16:46 PM

Well, first of all, I come with hat in hand and ask permission. I'm a newbie to NCOWS and certainly don't want to make "changes" with an outfit that I admire and aspire to join.

Second, I CAN shoot one pistol at a time. I can do it with either hand. Or, if pressed, I can even get two hands involved with one pistol, although that makes me fumble, stumble and shoot over the berm

. . .

This long winter I've accumulated enough rust on my shooting ability that just getting to a match will be a treat. I'm seriously thinking of invoking my "Thundercolt's Renegades" privilege and simply writing 800 seconds on all my stage times before the match. I'm coming for FUN. If I have to make my living with a gun, I'm a back shooter with a mean dog.

So, the question of whether or not I can shoot GF in NCOWS is more academic than practical. I'll shoot the stages as they are presented. Expect creativity. . .

Thanks for all the kind replys. I'm humbled.

DD-DLoS

River City John · March 28, 2008, 06:32:07 PM

We have many shooters who DO shoot one group of pistol targets using their strong hand and then the second bank of pistol targets using their weak hand. Just not both revolvers being held in battery at the same time.

Quick Fire · March 28, 2008, 07:39:36 PM

Yup RCJ, guilty as charged.

Silver Creek Slim · March 28, 2008, 07:47:01 PM

DD, I'm very glad you are aspiring to join NCOWS.

Slim

Steel Horse Bailey · March 28, 2008, 11:36:29 PM

Quote from: Silver Creek Slim on March 28, 2008, 07:47:01 PM
DD, I'm very glad you are aspiring to join NCOWS.

Slim

YEP!!

I'm happier than a pig in sh ... er, slop!

Has anyone ever actually STUDIED where pigs are happiest?

Tjackstephens · March 29, 2008, 09:24:12 AM

Jeff, I am happiest when their hams are smoked cured and I have a big slab on my breakfast plate with eggs, grits, and biscuits with red eye gravy on them. TJ

Steel Horse Bailey · March 29, 2008, 10:59:00 AM

Quote from: Tjackstephens on March 29, 2008, 09:24:12 AM
Jeff, I am happiest when their hams are smoked cured and I have a big slab on my breakfast plate with eggs, grits, and biscuits with red eye gravy on them. TJ

I'll drink to that!

French Jack · March 30, 2008, 06:47:33 AM

DD- This question has surfaced in the past. There was a proposal a few years ago to institute a "gunfighter" class. It failed approval of the Congress. So, in part, as a consequence, the proposal or question has not been brought forward again.

Realistically, since most of the stages are a departure from the usual 10-10-4, there are few "Gunfighter friendly" stages written. With many posses following a format that utilizes only a single pistol, and with the overwhelming response to such classes as Working Cowboy, and Originals, both of which utilize two firearms, there has been no demand for such a class, nor for stages that might be considered "gunfighter friendly".

Each posse is allowed to offer non-traditional classes or formats in their regular shoots. However, such allowances do not make for NCOWS approval as official unless voted in by the Congress. What this means is that you very well may be allowed to shoot "gunfighter style" at some club shoots, but it would not be expected at a regional or national level.

If there is a club near to you where you can participate, I suggest you ask them and see.

Dick Dastardly · March 30, 2008, 07:29:32 AM

Thanks French Jack,

That's plain enough. Basically it's what I'm doing now in SASS shooting. There are lots more GF friendly stages written lately than their used to be in SASS, but there are still plenty of stages where GF doesn't work.

I'd plan on shooting the stage according to the script regardless. Where there were targets to be engaged by Two pistols back to back I'd ask permission to shoot them GF style regardless of the "class" I'm shooting in. It's fun. Also, the GF has a few more creative options but the spotters have to be on the same page.

Whatever the decision is, I'll happily abide by it. Again, I'm not about to try to change things, at least not right off the bat.

Regardless of how a stage is written or shot, my first concern is, and has always been, safety.

DD-DLoS