Looking for a long range gun.

Roosterman · March 25, 2008, 09:25:49 PM

I'm looking at getting a long range gun sometime this year. I've settled on a 45-70. So what should I consider, rolling block, high wall or a sharps? This will be an I talian gun what ever I end up with. Any pros or cons with those three?

Otter · March 25, 2008, 10:59:11 PM

CAUTION - THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY - SO TAKE IT FOR WHAT YOU'VE PAID FOR IT.

I don't have a dog in this fight as both my 45-70's are 'Merican made, so . . . If you are dead set on getting an Italian gun, at least stick with a Pedersoli. It seems their quality is more consistant than the others. A 45-70 is fully capable of reaching out to a 1000 yards, so, good choice there. Get at least a 30" heavy oct barrel, 32" or 34" would be even better. Be prepared to spend up to $500 for a GOOD set of sights. As far as Hi Wall, Rolling Block or Sharps, flip a coin - all are strong enough to handle full BP loads. I have both a Sharps and a Rolling Block and they both shoot better than I can see anymore. I have heard VERY little bad about the Hi Wall, either.

Oh, yeah, if you aren't planning to load your own rounds and do it with real BP and at least a 500 grain lead bullet, you're on your own. These guns work best and most accurately with those loading criteria.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · March 25, 2008, 11:23:16 PM

Some complain that the large side-hammer on the sharps gives a slower locktime and a bit of a shock that disturbs your perfect hold. I love my Gemmer Pedersoli. And you can't beat the "cache' " of the Sharps! Why hasn't anyone re-created the FREUND improvements to the Sharps?

Some say that the Hi-Wall was too late for the buffalo slaughter. It is, IMHO the best target rifle of the lot. (A fast, centre hung hammer, and an oblique falling block to seat slightly "proud" rounds.) Mine, after the barrel was bored to .38-55 by Ron Smith, is deadly!

The Roller has a lot going for it, while not, argueably, being the best in every aspect. (Tell that to the many armies that adopted the roller, and the target shooters of fame.) As I have a Pedersoli Sharps and a #3 Hi-Wall in .38-55, my next project is to get a long range target Remington. It is historically appropriate and has a great reputation on the target, and hunting, ranges of the 19th Century.

A toss-up. Take your pick!

Roosterman · March 26, 2008, 07:58:31 AM

Thanks guys! Just the info I was looking for. I'll gladly invite more opinions if anybody would like to add some.

Ol Gabe · March 26, 2008, 08:58:06 AM

Roosterman,
See you are from Davenport in your profile, come on up to Ackley and a CVR Big Bore Shoot sometime soon and you can see all the Big Bores in action! The list of events and CVR website info is in a thread at the top of this forum list.
You also might want to get in touch with 'Bear Tooth Billy', another new forum feller, he is near Low Moor and will give you the straight stuff, he hunts Buffler as well as hits gongs with his rifles!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe

Roosterman · March 26, 2008, 09:00:16 AM

QuoteSee you are from Davenport in your profile, come on up to Ackley and a CVR Big Bore Shoot sometime soon and you can see all the Big Bores in action!

That's the plan!

James Hunt · March 26, 2008, 01:04:29 PM

Wish to second all that Otter said above. I have two Shilohs and a Pedersoli. I admit to pretty much leaving the latter in the safe now but not because of quality. I think it has outstanding quality in construction, not up there with Shiloh but very acceptable for its price. As far as shooting - I am no long range shooter, couldn't hit a building at 1000 yards. However, out to 400 yards I can not tell the difference - after that its my fault I figure. as far as I know Pedersoli is the only Italian gun to hold its own in BP cartridge matches of note. Apparently their barrels are quality.

Also second Otter's recommendation on sights, suck it up and pay for them. They say you buy two sets of sights, the ones you can afford and the ones you want.

My only complaint with Pedersoli is that the Italians have apparently never seen the forestock of an original sharps, they insist on putting that bulge in the middle of it. Small point.

Otter · March 26, 2008, 10:40:25 PM

"My only complaint with Pedersoli is that the Italians have apparently never seen the forestock of an original sharps, they insist on putting that bulge in the middle of it. Small point."

If that bothers you too much, you can use some filing and sandpaper to fix it. (BTW - I agree about the "bump".)

Roosterman · March 28, 2008, 05:36:23 PM

Well, I've got the itch bad, I think it's going to be a rolling block in 45-70, 34" barrel and set triggers. Sellling off another batch of old military rifles to finance the addiction.....

French Jack · April 01, 2008, 12:44:02 PM

With the improvement in quality of cases and primers and ammunition in general, the so-called advantages of the Sharps and the Hiwall over the Rolling Block are pretty well non-existant within the pressure limits of each. Certainly with black powder and lead bullets there is little difference. All can be made to shoot with care in loading. A good barrel and good sights are a very large part of the equation.
Take your pick, and what ever suits your fancy, go for it.
I have owned Sharps, HiWalls, and at present have 3 rolling blocks and a Martini, love them all.

Ranch 13 · April 03, 2008, 04:18:24 PM

Quote from: Roosterman on March 25, 2008, 09:25:49 PM
I'm looking at getting a long range gun sometime this year. I've settled on a 45-70. So what should I consider, rolling block, high wall or a sharps? This will be an I talian gun what ever I end up with. Any pros or cons with those three?

???Why in the world would spend that kind of money, and not even take a look at the Big Timber made sharps? A 74 from either CSharps or Shiloh is only a few hundred more than an Italian, and the quality and service beyond the sale is head and shoulders ahead with one of the USA bulit guns. Not to mention better resale value down the road should you decide to sell.
CSA also has the 75 models Sharps that will come to your door WITH good sights for the same money as Pedersoli's good sharps with only the barrel sight.
CSA has an available list with rifles that are ready to go, and if you don't see something there , they say 3 months will be all the time you need to wait. The one I ordered last Thanksgiving was in my hands and being shot before Christmas.
Shiloh has a longer wait, but from it never hurts to call as they do have rifles without a home every now and again.

Caleb Hobbs · April 03, 2008, 04:36:29 PM

One note on barrel length is the rifle's overall weight. I believe NRA Silhouette matches have a 12 pounds 2 ounce limit, if I remember correctly. Once you get over 30 inches with a heavy barrel, you can be pushing that. Staying under the limit either allows you to shoot Silhouette, or if that doesn't interest you, it might affect the rifle's resale value down the road. Just something to consider. And a last note: You're gonna love shooting these rifles. Have fun.

French Jack · April 03, 2008, 06:38:41 PM

For a first rate Rolling Block, Lone Star Rifle Co., can put you in the driver's seat on one. Contact Dave Higginbotham and check out the goods at: http:// www.lonestarrifle.com --- some purty guns!!

Roosterman · April 09, 2008, 09:03:42 PM

Well, I've been researching buying an American made rolling block and I just can't afford it.

The American gun is going to cost me not just a "few hundred more" , but more like $1100 more than the Italian gun, and that doesn't even include the sights yet. Being a custom gun maker by trade I understand why the american guns are more expensive. I'm thinking of going with the Italian gun to get my feet wet and see how I like all this long distance stuff. If it's as much fun as I think it is I'll just build a rolling block myself once I figure out just what the sport is all about.

Ranch 13 · April 09, 2008, 10:13:35 PM

Quote from: Roosterman on April 09, 2008, 09:03:42 PM
Well, I've been researching buying an American made rolling block and I just can't afford it. The American gun is going to cost me not just a "few hundred more" , but more like $1100 more than the Italian gun, and that doesn't even include the sights yet. Being a custom gun maker by trade I understand why the american guns are more expensive. I'm thinking of going with the Italian gun to get my feet wet and see how I like all this long distance stuff. If it's as much fun as I think it is I'll just build a rolling block myself once I figure out just what the sport is all about.

Well I suppose that brings two questions to mind
If you're a custom gunmaker then why not build your own?
Bet you're glad all the folks you build for didn't decide to go the same route you're about to?

Caleb Hobbs · April 10, 2008, 12:58:16 AM

I just took a peek at your Web site. Those are some sweet looking firearms.

Roosterman · April 10, 2008, 05:14:14 AM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on April 09, 2008, 10:13:35 PM
Well I suppose that brings two questions to mind
If you're a custom gunmaker then why not build your own?
Bet you're glad all the folks you build for didn't decide to go the same route you're about to?

As a matter of fact most people who find my website and request a price quote find they don't want to spend that much and do go a cheaper route. Some people have that kind of disposable income and some don't. I guess I'm in the "don't" class.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am to find I can't afford an american made gun. I most likely will build one in the future. Problem is right now I've never even held a rolling block, so I'm completely unfamiliar with them, that and I have a 1 1/2 year back log of work to get through before I could even put a project like that on my bench. The Italian gun will have to be my entry level gun until I know the game better and have time to build my own. Knowing me I'll build several of these if I find I like the game.

Ranch 13 · April 10, 2008, 06:15:24 AM

Well here's a couple of things for you to ponder.
While the Italian guns are a tiny bit cheaper than the guns made in america by american craftsmen trying to get by, they DONOT hold resale value as well as the american built guns, and that becomes important should you decide to quit the game or spend the money for a better/different gun somewhere down the road.
When you start talking long range guns, mediocre won't get it at 500 yds, and forget about any scores at 800 and beyond. Good barrels, coupled with smooth actions, and good sights are a must , unless you have no intentions of having to fight for last place.
Don't forget sights. A good set of sights suitable for long range on ANY gun is going to set you back close to 500$ Then there's the amount of lead it takes to proove out loads and compete and that's not cheap.
Getting into longrange games on the cheap isn't nearly the good idea it sounds like at the start.

If you can find a better deal than a C Sharps 1875 deluxe model with sights, that's ready to go to the line, with the ability to win matches as it comes, I'ld sure like to see it.CSA's basic highwall is also a bargain compared to the Uberti's, and the basic 74 sharps from either of the Big Timber firms isn't enough extra over a Pedersoli to get excited about.
Price checking is almighty important nowdays. The cost of the Italian guns just aren't really enough cheaper to justify sacrificing the quality at todays monetary exchange rate. Back in the day when you could get 2 or maybe even 3 Italian guns for one of the home grown ones is long gone.
The old saw about getting what you pay for is more so now than ever.

Roosterman · April 10, 2008, 02:26:03 PM

Maybe you should do some research yourself. I've been checking prices of both. An American made rolling block set up the way I want it is going to run me $2750 with out sights. The Pedersoli set up the same way with sights is $1650 . Thats not "a tiny bit cheaper" in my financial reality. I realize the Italian sights leave much to be desired, but I can upgrade later to better sights when I get more experienced and want to become more competitive. $3250 for an American made gun with good sights just isn't in my budget right now. The only way I'm going to afford a gun of that quality is build it myself. Cripes, my wife cares less what guns I spend my money on, but if I ordered a gun for over $3000 bucks I might be looking for a new place to dwell.

Otter · April 10, 2008, 03:39:34 PM

Quote from: Roosterman on April 09, 2008, 09:03:42 PM
Well, I've been researching buying an American made rolling block and I just can't afford it. The American gun is going to cost me not just a "few hundred more" , but more like $1100 more than the Italian gun, and that doesn't even include the sights yet. Being a custom gun maker by trade I understand why the american guns are more expensive. I'm thinking of going with the Italian gun to get my feet wet and see how I like all this long distance stuff. If it's as much fun as I think it is I'll just build a rolling block myself once I figure out just what the sport is all about.

If I were a custom gun maker myself, I'd dive in and build one for myself. I'm NOT a 'smith and, with some help from a friend who is, I put one together about 10 years ago. Find an action worth refurbishing, get a good barrel (#1 heavy oct from GM, Badger or other) get some wood from Treebone (or other), call Shiloh and get a set of barrel sights the same as they put on their Sharps rifles and you're ready to rock and roll. If you do get the Italian RB "complete" with long range sights, trust me, you will buy them again. I shot for over a year with just the barrel sights, and since no one else will say it, I shot quite well out to 600 yards with them (ouch, just hurt my arm patting my back). INCLUDING a good set of long range sights, I have less than $1500 wrapped up in mine - that's with updated prices for barrel and wood. That's less than Italian and since you will have done it yourself and for yourself, you'll like it even more . . .

EXACTLY what kind of setup do you want? You just say an Italian vs American made is about $1100 less for the "same" (or similar) setup. I'm sure you can do better than either by building one yourself. It will be one of a kind and will be "Made in America".