38-40 New bullet design test results

[Col. Cornelius Gilliam]

Howdy,

As I mentioned last fall, (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,17960.msg227783.html#msg227783) I have tried many molds and bullet designs for the 38-40 (including the "Big Lube") and finally decided to design my own.  I drafted it up and had LEE cut a custom 6-cavity mold.  I based it on the basic Lyman design with two lube grooves, and no crimp groove (see picture below).

I load it with a full case of KIK FFg.  The 0.401 diameter bullet weighs in around 180gr and I lube it with 50/50 beeswax/olive oil.

(10)-shot group off the bench at 50 yrds - 2 5/8" center to center.

I finally got a chance this weekend to give it a real good wringing out.  I fired 100 shots through a Uberti 1873 border rifle, no cleaning or water sprays, at a faster pace then would occur during a CAS match.  The rifle never fouled out, good lube star at the muzzle.

After 100 shots, the rifle was still drilling them in there.

Cleanup was easy.  One wet patch and the bore looked good.  A second to make sure and then one to dry and one to oil.  Piece of cake!!

I also put 50 rounds through a ruger vaquero pistol.  Cleanup was easy, accuracy held throughout the test.

I am very happy with the outcome.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

You SHOULD be happy, Col. Gilliam!

Nice project and thanks for sharing.

[Springfield Slim]

Nice looking bullet. If all the old designs had 2 bigger grooves like that then the Big Lube's would probably never have been invented. You are also lucky in that the 38-40 bullets tend to be longer and so have room for 2 nice grooves. Any particular reason for no crimp groove? And I like the larger base. I like to go that way with my bullets when I can.

[Col. Cornelius Gilliam]

Nice looking bullet. If all the old designs had 2 bigger grooves like that then the Big Lube's would probably never have been invented. You are also lucky in that the 38-40 bullets tend to be longer and so have room for 2 nice grooves. Any particular reason for no crimp groove? And I like the larger base. I like to go that way with my bullets when I can.

Thanks.

I modeled this bullet after the original Ideal Bullet shape.  There is alot of room for two lube grooves on all of the standard weight for caliber bullets if they do not have a crimp groove.  If you look at the old designs that are still  made by Lyman, that was the norm on all the larger calibers.

No need for a crimp groove with black powder.  Adding a crimp groove just removes bearing surface and reduces the size of the lube grooves.  A black powder only bullet does not need a crimp groove.  The only reason I can see to have a crimp groove is if you are wanting to load it with smokeless as a rifle round.  Revolver only smokeless rounds don't need a crimp groove either in my experience.

On interesting fact I've discovered, the Uberti 1873 rifle chambers were copied from an original 1873 Winchester so closely that they have no chamfered throat at the front of the chamber.  Any bullet with a crimp groove has a full diameter portion in front of the crimp groove and this interferes with the rifling on the Uberti's making it hard to chamber.  The bullet engraves into the rifling.  I've actually throated my 1873's so they could be loaded with a smokeless bullet if I so desire.

[Deadeye Dick]

Col,
Nice looking bullet. Thought I'd ask you about not crimping revolver cartridges. I thought I'd heard it was important to crimp revolver cartridges so they wouldn't slide ahead and cause an air space in the cartridge. Also, it keeps them from going forward and stopping the cylinder from turning. Have I heard wrong? Maybe the recoil is not enough to cause them to shift forward.  I just as soon stop crimping my cartridges. Makes the brass last longer. Sounds like you haven't experienced this problem.
Deadeye Dick

[Fox Creek Kid]

I shoot a 205 gr. .44 cal. bullet that has one big lube groove and the same nose as the venerable Lyman 427098.  Mine has a crimp groove as well which is raised near the nose a tad to act like a Kephart scraper bullet. Bernie Rowles at Old West Bullet Moulds made it for me in a four hole gang mould.  I really like the looks of your bullet as well. 

[Col. Cornelius Gilliam]

Col,
Nice looking bullet. Thought I'd ask you about not crimping revolver cartridges. I thought I'd heard it was important to crimp revolver cartridges so they wouldn't slide ahead and cause an air space in the cartridge. Also, it keeps them from going forward and stopping the cylinder from turning. Have I heard wrong? Maybe the recoil is not enough to cause them to shift forward.  I just as soon stop crimping my cartridges. Makes the brass last longer. Sounds like you haven't experienced this problem.
Deadeye Dick

Howdy,

I still "crimp" the cartidge even though it doesn't have a crimp groove.  The standard method with this style of bullets is to roll crimp over the forward driving band.  It keeps the bullet from moving forward, out of the case.  The compressed black powder under the bullet keeps it from moving into the case.