lube cases for the 50-90?

[Eric F]

do I need to lube the cases when reloading?  I am going to be loading tomorrow and would really like to find out before I get something stuck

[Dick Dastardly]

The only dies that don't require lubed cases are carbide dies.  Is your sizing die carbide?  That's your short answer.  If in doubt, lube.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Adding to what Monsignor Dastardly said here;  It sounds like you can also do ONLY neck-sizing, if you're only using the cartridges in the same firearm. Right?  DON"T full-length resize if you don't have to - your expensive cases will last longer.  And yes, you'll need to case lube them even if you only neck-resize.

I've had very good luck with both Midway and Dillon brand spray-on case lubes.  They have a light lube in an alcohol solution and it's a simple 30-60 second process to lube 100 cases at a time.  (10 seconds or less to spray on the lube, the remaining time waiting so the lube spreads itself over the entire case.)  There are other good spray lubes, like One Shot  by Hornady, I think, as well as others.  I wouldn't bother with the old method of pad lubing, if you ask me.  With the spray lubes, all you have to do is make sure the lube doesn't get sprayed INTO the case - and that's very simple to NOT do.  I have a cardboard box lid, like what comes with computer paper cartons, and I drop my cases in the lid, give 'em a quick spray, wait 30 seconds or more whilst doing some other pre-loading chore (getting a soda/coffee or a last trip to the little cowboy's room  ), and they're done, with very little mess, fuss, excess or bother and very little residue to wipe off when finished.

I've been known to spray my 45 Colt and 44Mag cases as well, even 'tho I have carbide insert dies for ALL my pistol reloading.  The lube makes those big cases MUCH easier to resize - with less than 1/2 the effort.  Nice clean cases will also make your resizing job easier, whether pistol, rifle, full OR neck-sizing only.

[Arcey]

Lemme second my pard, Steel Horse. Pad lubin' is a mess. Tumble, spray, size then tumble again. 

[Eric F]

ok can I neck size if I have a full length sizeing die?  I am guessing not, I have the standard laymen 50-90 dies.  Thanks guys.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

You can do a Half-fast job of neck sizing with a FL resizing die, but it's not going to be as right as a proper die.  You have to adjust your die up farther than where it is so near the shellholder.  If you're used to setting the FL die, just work at it backwards, ie: most have you start by taking the die and screwing it down until it touches the shellholder (with the ram extended) then backing it off 1/2 to 1 1/2 turns - depending on mfgr. directions.  Start from where you just begin to feel the die start to enter/encase the neck.  You'll need to try a case, then check to see if you've resized the neck any.  You'll need to repeat this until you get the desired effect - it'll take a number of trials.  Basically, you'll just want to resize the neck enough to gently squeeze the bullet so it won't slip out.  SOME folk's set up (mostly because of tight chambers, IMHO) don't even have to go 'thru this step, because there is still a bit of neck tension with a fired case.

I can't remember his name, but a VERY famous Creedmore champion fired his whole match with 2 cases.  He would de-cap, clean out the primer pocket then re-cap, put in a powder charge, set the bullet on top of the charged case and then chamber the round.  His bullet would chamber-seat.  Aim and BOOM!  This isn't too far from what some BPCR shooters do today.  I've heard that MANY only have enough neck tension to keep the bullet from falling out.

Keep yer powder dry!

[Eric F]

I had planned to crimp using the fl die to make a slight taper type crimp I wonder if that is what they were doing?  Any thoughts on this plan?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I had planned to crimp using the fl die to make a slight taper type crimp I wonder if that is what they were doing?  Any thoughts on this plan?

Another pard whose views I respect highly (Delmonico) shoots a LOT of longer range stuff (BPCR AND smokeyless target shooting & hunting) and he uses a taper crimp die almost exclusively.  That MAY be all the neck tension needed with BP rounds - but I don't know fer sure.

With a little luck, he & GW & French Jack and some other well-respected long range shooters will find this post and comment:  I'm still a Plebe - a Foxtrot November Golf - a beginner at loading and shooting BPCR, I just listen to them well. 

[Delmonico]

I full length size, I like lots of neck tension.  The old saw about neck sized cases holding more powder may be true, as well as aliighning in the chamber a bit better.  But if your chamber is that much bigger you have a lot of problems with the gun.  My Pedersoli I can't really see much differance in the case capacity, not enough to make a bit of differance.

Over the years a lot of folks have pushed neck sizing for rifles, (nitro and black both) because the case lasts longer they say.  Seems like if you don't aneal them from time to time it's the neck that splits anyway.

Spray lube them, full length size them' like they said.  Myself I rinse them in a bit of laquer thinner and drain, but what do you expect from a old worn out painter.  Just love the way it removes grease.

[Montana Slim]

I only gots a 45-70 & most of my shootin' has been geared to NCOWS buffalo matches.....

I FL resize. Cause it means easy chambering under nasty conditions including a dirty chamber.
I also only use the crimping die to gently return the flared neck back to place. Neck tension holds the bullet.


Regards!
Slim

[Delmonico]

I only gots a 45-70 & most of my shootin' has been geared to NCOWS buffalo matches.....

I FL resize. Cause it means easy chambering under nasty conditions including a dirty chamber.
I also only use the crimping die to gently return the flared neck back to place. Neck tension holds the bullet.


Regards!
Slim

The real test is to see what your rifle likes, mine shoots a little bit better and a whole lot cleaner with a heavy taper crimp.

[Deputy Duke]

Bear in mind that a heavy taper crimp performed in a full length sizing die backed off with the decapper stem removed can actually swage your carefully cast, relatively soft bullets down inside the casing.
I have only shot maybe a couple thousand 40-70 and 45-70 black powder rounds by this point, but most of those fired in serious testing working up loads. I have found that annealed, fireformed cases, unsized, with finger seated bullets held gently in the case by using the full length sizing die with the decapper removed and run in just deep enough to hold the bullet but yet allow it to be easily turned with my fingers to be the most consistent and accurate in my rifles. I used Swiss 1 1/2 fg with almost no compression or standard Goex with about .300" compression and got similar results.
Just because that works for me does not make it gospel. Mike Venturino and Bob Glodt write of full length sizing every time. Experiment and enjoy, despite the cost of components.

Duke

[Delmonico]

I have a regular taper crimp die, I'm not at home right now, but I think it is a Redding.