Need some help--just getting started

[chopper69]

I'd like to get into some black powder action shooting and I need help finding a holster rig (preferably double crossdraw) for a pair of Ruger Old Army's with 7 1/2" barrels.  Also, what do you guys shoot for rifles/shotguns?   Any help would be appreciated.

[Jefro]

Check out Capt. Baylors site, full of good info.
http://www.curtrich.com/captbaylorsrangercamp.html

    Jefro,  Relax-Enjoy

[Dick Dastardly]

Back when I got started in CAS I didn't have any "proper" black powder guns.  I had a Ruger Vaquero 44 Magnum.  I simply loaded up black powder and shot it.  Got a second one used same as the first to make a brace.  Then, I got a Browning 92 44 Magnum rifle.  Shot the same ammo in it.

Soon enough I found that the dang "Kieth" style Lyman 429421 bullet was NOT the right projectile.  Guns fouled out something awful.  So, I got me a Mav Dutchman Big Lube™ mold and never looked back.

So, most SASS legal guns that you find will do fine with Holy Black.  The one real exception is the dang Schofield replicas.  They foul out around the cylinder base pin and quit runnin'.

Most SASS legal lever rifles will do ya fine.  Some cost more and others less.  Shop around, shoot some matches and then plunk yer money on the mahogany.  I'm thinkn' you could do a LOT worse than Marlin guns.  They may be the real bargain for SASS shooting.  My Brownings have become way to spendy and they aren't makin' any more of 'em.

For a scattergun, you can get a good Stevens 311 for not too much.  They are built tank tough but aren't match winners.  I have three and love 'em all.  One each 12ga, 16ga and 20ga.  I wish I could get a 311 in 10ga but I don't think Stevens ever made any.

Welcome!  Good shootn' and good luck.

DD-DLoS

[Cowtown Scout]

Chopper69
You don't want double cross draws.  If you want a cross draw you should get one strong side to go with it.
Scout

[Paladin UK]

Fer Cowtown Scout...

You don't want double cross draws.

Ya dont wanna let Wild Bill hear ya say that!!

Paladin (whats only jestin ) UK

[Ransom Gaer]

For holsters I use a pair of strong drop slim jims for my 1860 Armies.  I prefer them to crossdraws.

Like DD I have a Stevens 311 and used it when I started this game.  Good solid shotgun.  I have not cut the barrels and don't plan to.  Also it is not for sale.  I also have one of the CZ Coachguns with mule ear hammers.  That is the shotgun I normally use as my main match shotgun.  I have finally figured out what it likes in the way of loads.  Really like it.  For starting out the 311 is a good one.  They are relatively inexpensive and they are reliable.

My lever gun is an 1860 Henry.  Lots of style points.  Not as fast as some.  VERY ACCURATE!!!!!  Barrel gets really hot with BP loads on hot days.  Unique, don't see many at the range.  Only thing better would be one of the iron frame versions.  Mine is in .45 Colt.  .44-40 would be a better choice.  Kind of expensive as a starter rifle.

The big thing is go to a match before you buy and see what others are using and you may be able to actually try something at the range and see how you like it.

Ransom Gaer

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

You may want to rethink things just a bit.

I usually recommend that new shooters to CAS start out with cartridge revolvers, not Cap & Ball guns. A lot of guys look at the prices of the Italian import C&B pistols and see how much less expensive thay are than cartridge guns, and decide they want to save some money and buy a pair of C&B revolvers, rather than cartridge guns. Of course this is not true with the Old Armys, they cost just as much as a cartridge gun, but my logic is still the same. If you are already familiar with loading and shooting C&B guns, that's fine. If you are new to it, there is a lot going on at a CAS match, and having to deal with loading C&B pistols just adds to how much the newcomer has to deal with. Cartridge guns are just plain easier to deal with, that's why they were invented. If you really want to start out with a pair of Old Armys, be sure you are very familiar with their loading and operation before you show up at a match with them.

Cross draw holsters are usually used in conjuction with a straight draw holster, the shooter usually wears one of each. I do. Using a cross draw holster requires special provisions so that one does not sweep any one with the muzzle when drawing or reholstering the gun. Most shooters will limit themselves to one cross draw holster because of this, and also because most shooters are dominant with one hand or the other. The dominant hand will usually reach across the body to pull the gun from the cross draw holster. The same hand reaches straight down for the straight draw holster. Two butt forward holsters will require the shooter to make special provisions with both holsters so they do not sweep anybody while drawing from and returning the pistols to leather.

Just food for thought.

I'll agree with Ransom Gaer that the best thing you can do is show up at a match before you spend any money. Get a feel for the flow of things so you can get an idea of how a match actually works. Politely ask to handle some of the guns so that you can get a feel for the different models. Most CAS shooters are happy to let prospective new shooters handle their guns and most will be happy to let you shoot a few rounds out of them too. Just ask. Tactfully.

I shoot Black Powder in CAS with 45 Colt in my revolvers and 44-40 in my rifles. I usually shoot a pair of 2nd Gen Colts and usually shoot a Henry. My shotgun is an old 12 gauge Stevens double hammer gun.

[Fingers McGee]

What Ransom & Driftwood said +1

I shoot blackpowder in SASS with either a pair of 2nd Gen Colt 51 Navies; Navy Arms Frontiersmen; or Taylors 1861 Navies.  Alway use a pair of strong side straight drop Slim Jim holsters.  Rifle is a '66 Carbine, 73 short rifle, or Henry all in 44-40; and shotgun is 1889 Remington, Liberty II, or Coyote Cap 1887.

Fingers (who just loves C&B revolvers) McGee

[Arcey]

Politely ask to handle some of the guns so that you can get a feel for the different models. Most CAS shooters are happy to let prospective new shooters handle their guns and most will be happy to let you shoot a few rounds out of them too. Just ask. Tactfully.

Let me add something to that, if I may. DJ, I ain't looking to step on you.

Be aware of where you are before you ask. A prospective new shooter was talking with me last shoot. He asked to handle one of my revolvers. There were fifty to sixty people wandering around waiting for the safety meeting. I had to refuse. I had no idea where he might have pointed it. I felt like a complete jerk but the consideration was owed to the others there.

Try asking if there's a safe area to go if you want to handle a gun.

[Paladin UK]

Arcey says.......

I felt like a complete jerk but the consideration was owed to the others there.

You wuz bein safe above all else pard,  `n that is all that matters

Paladin (What needs a 44.40 carbine but jest cant get a nice 2nd hand one here in the UK at the moment  ) UK

[Driftwood Johnson]

Good Addition Arcey

If I hand a gun to a new shooter, or somebody whose gun handling experience I am not familiar with, I usually wait until my posse has finished shooting the stage and they have moved on to the next stage, or I wait until the end of the match. I'll often tell interested visitors to wait around until the end of the match, then I'll let them do a little bit of shooting. Helps weed out those who are really interested from those who are not. Then I'll ride heard on the newcomer to make sure he doesn't get in trouble. I'll usually hand him an empty gun to examine over at one of the loading tables, and make sure he is keeping it pointed in a safe direction the whole time he is handling it. I try to give him a little bit of instruction in where not to point it at that time. If I'm going to let him shoot, I will load it over at the loading table and holster it. By this time there is usually nobody else left around. I time it so the crew hasn't started taking the targets down yet. I will walk up to the firing line with him and hand him the loaded gun, keeping it pointed down range while I hand it to him. I stand right there by his side, prepared to stop him if he starts to do anything dangerous.

[Arcey]

Thanks for the support, boys.

Can't wait 'til after a shoot. Our stuff is jumped on for tear down 'n securing real quick. We can't leave it out.

We had a group of folks wanting to shoot a stage recently. We ran 'em thru during the snack break. Had two sets of loaners and ammo. Guns were staged. As soon as they finished a run the RO brought the guns to me and I emptied and reloaded them. Then I took the loaded guns to the line and staged them for the next shooter while the RO brought the empties to the table. There was an experienced shooter on 'em the whole time.

[Dick Dastardly]

Different situations, different procedures, same concern.  Safety first and always.  Thinking shooters will help newbies and at the same time impress them with the fact that safety is our first priority.

I'm proud to be a Cowboy Action Shooter in a sport that is kept very safe.  I'm not sure of just how we rank on the safety issue vs other disciplines, but I do know that CAS is very safe.

Safety starts and ends with attitude, experience and training.  This is one place where there's no room for levity.

DD-DLoS

[Arcey]

Ain't braggin' on myself, boys, cuz I copied it from someone else.

Back when I was werkin' ta put Pungo tagether, the issue of steel targets away from the berm popped up. That was contrary ta the the parent club's rules.

Another ole boy 'n me went to the range 'n shot all kindahs strange stuff. Had butcher paper around the targets ta catch the splatter. I had stuff all drawn up with angles 'n all from the tests. Went to the board meetin' ready ta argue the case. Had to go anyway, I was a board member.

Anyway. We had this crotchety old range master (miss ya, Frank). Mean'rn a snake but more common sense in his little finger than any of our presidential hopefuls have in their entire family. He's gone now. A WWII Navy vet from the Pacific Theater. The man didn't do BS, period. There I sat, gettin' ready ta go ta the mat ta keep our shoots runnin'. Had all my charts 'n such. Before I did, Frank spoke up – out of order – he didn't care. Robert's Rules could take a hike.

"I've been and watched one of those matches Mr. S****** runs. I've been to every kind of match there is and I must say I've never seen a match conducted under stricter safety standards than the cowboy thing. If Mr. S****** says it's safe to shoot steel targets away from the berm, it's safe."

Wasn't another word said. Motion to shoot steel away from the berm passed. I got out with what I wanted while the gettin' was good. Charts, drawin's 'n all. Never unrolled 'em.