Mixed messages from my cleaning patches and mix - newbie questions

[Zip Wyatt]

I just bought an original Winchester 1887 from a guy who bought it from another guy.  I don't know its history - could have been shot with BP or Smokeless.  The barrel hasn't been cleaned lately - it was filthy.  I tried some Ballistol and water 1-10 mix and it cleaned out some gunk but the patches got lighter after every scrubbing with the brass brush. 

I got tired and will continue in a day or two, so I put some pure Ballistol on a patch and ran it through the bore to preserve it (no brushing before this patch) - it came out blacker than after the last brushing with the 1 in 10 mix.  So what's going on here -how do i interpret the patch?

Thanks!

Zip

[Dick Dastardly]

Sounds liike some hard fouling is loosening up and finally coming out.  Try putting an empty shell in the chamber, closing the action and filling the barrel with Moosemilk.  Some may leak past the empty, but you don't have to leave it in there real long.  Also, Moosemilk in the action will evaporate and leave some Ballistol behind.

Let it sit for a while and then dump it out and scrub again.  It sounds like you have some hard fouling in that barrel.  You may also have to do a thorough cleaning with a good heathen smokeyless cleaner if the gun was shot with both powders.

Once the barrel does come clean you should run a clean patch wet with Ballistol thru to leave some rust protection.

Good luck, report back.

DD-DLoS

[Zip Wyatt]

DD,

I appreciate the reply and advice.  Just to be clear, moosemilk is the ballistol and water mixture?  Thanks!

Zip

[Dick Dastardly]

Right.  I mix Moosemilk One part Ballistol and Ten parts water.  You might go just a bit richer for your jub.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

DD,

I appreciate the reply and advice.  Just to be clear, moosemilk is the ballistol and water mixture?  Thanks!

Zip

Right.  I mix Moosemilk One part Ballistol and Ten parts water.  You might go just a bit richer for your jub.

DD-DLoS

Yep.  Moosemilk is ANY combination of water to Ballistol.  10-1 is very popular.  I use 6-1, 'cause I like the idea of more oil and that much water WILL still do its job.

It does sound like some good quality smokeyless gun cleaner is in order here.  It sounds like perhaps the gun was fired with BP, not cleaned, then smokeyless shells fired 'thru it.  The thing is ... you need to take care of the possible BP fouling first.  If it were pure BP residue (and it COULD still be very hard BP residue ONLY) it may well have started to do nastiness to the barrel and you'd probably notice it already - but a WHOLE BUNCH of that would depend on the humidity where the gun was stored.  The residue from BP - by itself - isn't bad, it's when the air where the gun is stored gets above a certain percent humidity, the residue attracts water (is hygroscopic) and starts its damaging processes allowing rust to form.  Depending on the humidity, this can begin several days later or even HOURS later, depending on extreme conditions.  'Course, iffn ya fired yer shooter, then dropped it into a stream, you'd neutralize the salts in the residue and actually HELP yer gun ... IF ya get rid of all the water, that is! 


I'm a user of Ballistol and Moosemilk (oh - there is/was a commercial product called "Moosemilk" sold [but NOT by the Ballistol company that I know of] - probably to capitalize on the popularity of the Ballistol solution) and it does what it's intended to do ... neutralize corrosive residue, give some lubrication and corrosion resistance, etc. ... BUT!  There ARE much better lubricants and preservatives available to the modern shooter.  If it were MY gun, I'd finish cleaning with the Ballistol, then degrease it THOROUGHLY with ZEP #505, Shooter's Choice, Brownells, Birchwood Casey or any commercial degreaser.  I'd grab my bottle of BreakFree CLP - or Rem Oil, or TW25, or RIG or ... (you get the picture) and SOAK that puppy and then leave it drippy wet for a couple days.  Then wipe it down (mostly) and leave it alone until you get ready to shoot it again.  THEN wipe it again and put whatever BP friendly coatings you want on the gun.  Contrary to popular belief, in 30+ years of BP shooting, I have been mixing BreakFree and Ballistol, TC Bore Butter, homemade beeswax & olive oil bullet and C&B lube, Spit Ball, and a few other products with NONE of the nastiness and terrible "tar" that others claim.  Ya jist gotta know how to handle it: ya DON"t apply the BP stuff, which is generally water-based and eco friendly, over petroleum products unless you wipe off most of the visible "wetness" first.  We all know that oil & water don't mix!    (As far as Ballistol goes, it is made from coal oil and technically, doesn't mix with water, but it DOES form a colloidal suspension {I think that's the kee-reckt term} and allows the water and oil to mix well enough.)

For the time I've been using BP, I've used a LOT more Hoppes # 9 Plus   BP cleaner than I have Ballistol/moosemilk.  IMHO the Hoppes product doesn't stink nearly as much as Ballistol.  It DOES stink - but not until AFTER it combines with BP residue.  Ballistol stinks the moment it's opened!  (But it works)  Fox Creek Kid recommended another commercial product, but I don't know the name and there are numerous BP cleaners out there.  All ya gotta do is find 'em! 

By the way, Dick D. hit upon, I believe, the best solution for your particular problem.  Like he suggests, cork the end of the barrel and fill 'er up with moosemilk and let it soak a while.  Or use my Hoppes.  Or ANY of the good stuff - the key is to let it soak a while, perhaps overnite, but I'd use a solution more like mine with a bit less water, and I'd actually empty the liquid into a container, check the gun then refill it a few times until you KNOW that the water doesn't do any unwanted nastiness while soaking for a prolonged time!  Re-use the solution, of course, 'til you're satisfied with your results.  The WATER in this case, is the magic ingredient IF it IS hard BP fouling.  If not, it shouldn't hurt, anyway.

Keep yer powder dry!!

[Zip Wyatt]

DD and SHB,

I appreciate the advice - I'll take it and report back.

Zip