Historic Site Needs Repro pasteboard ammunition boxes

FTrooper · February 18, 2008, 03:24:09 PM

Does anyone know a source from reproductions of the 20rd .45-70 and .45-55 pasteboard boxes or at least the lables?

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett, Texas

Mustang Gregg · February 18, 2008, 08:48:49 PM

Dunno how accurate they are, but a place called Cheyenne Pioneer or something close sells reproduction ammo boxes.
Go to Midway USA site & do a search. They are there.

MG

Steel Horse Bailey · February 18, 2008, 10:48:54 PM

Howdy!

I'll add to this only to keep it near the top. Someone like River City John may be able to help.

The boxes by Cheyenne Pioneer Products are "period looking" but aren't reproductions of anything authentic. SOMEONE will have better versions that can be printed and put on blank boxes. I just wish I could help more.

FTrooper · February 19, 2008, 08:03:44 AM

Thanks so far. There was a guy in the 1990's in Arizona who made both "re-enactor" reusable versions and museum quality versions that ripped open just like the originals, but he sold all his stuff to another and that man has no plans to do them nor even where those materials went to...ugh! I will keep looking and if I find a source I will post it here!

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett

Pitspitr · February 19, 2008, 02:57:55 PM

FT,
To the best of my knowledge you have to make them yourself. That's what we do in the GMMCS. How many do you need to make? They are a bit time consuming but you can make them out of the cardboard backing off a legal pad.

River City John · February 19, 2008, 05:43:31 PM

A fast, (though a bit expensive-but weigh the expense against the value of your time) is to get a batch of the Cheyenne ones, which are of the basic dimension and hold 20 rounds, like many of the originals.
Then, you're going to use 2(two) tops for each bottom. Cut the tops so that they will cover exactly one half of the bottom equally from the bottom and the top, or the specific box you are trying to replicate. Glue one of the trimmed down top sections to the bottom, then run a string around the middle of the box along the top edge of the cut down top the bottom is nested in. Make the cardboard eggshell dividers out of scrap cardboard(used to save the sheet of cardboard from the cleaners that dress shirts were wrapped around. . . .those days are long gone, I'm sure.) and load your 20 rounds, and put the other cut down top on as the top. A basic cover paper can then be either copied or created on the 'puter following typical markings,- then 'wrap' the box just like a present and use paste or paper glue to seal tight, making sure the tail of the string hangs out at one of the corners.

I'm not sure if I'm making this clear, but you should be able to visualize it. For a beginning count of ten boxes you'll end up with five, 20 will give you 10, etc.

As far as a great source for ideas on labels, http://www.oldammo.com/picindex.htm, The Cartridge Collector shows many labels that could be reproduced on a graphics program. (www.oldammo.com/may04.htm, try this as a starter. . .there are many good pics and info on this site, plus links.)
And here is a link to Buffalo Arms catalog for the Cheyenne Cartridge boxes in .45-70: www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3535.htm , at 5 boxes for $20.00 it would run $40.00 to come up with 5 complete per this method. No reason you couldn't scratch build your boxes from a stiff cardboard, either, as Col. Pitsptr suggests. Below is a hint at typical construction. Remember, these weren't intended to last, so no need to try to make works of art out of them. Many a campfire was probably started with using the empty box as tinder, I would imagine.

"The boxes themselves are constructed of four separate pieces of cardboard, consisting of two pieces to form the body of the box and two end pieces, all held in place by a pasted-on buff colored paper wrapper, with a pull string for opening the box. When viewed from the end, as in this last picture, the top and bottom do not form 90 degree angles to the front and back, but instead are canted slightly. As a result, when the cartridges are placed in the box, the bullet tips resting against the angled bottom cause the rims of the front row of cartridges to be positioned slightly above the back row, allowing for easier removal of the cartridges from the box. The pull string can be seen to the upper right in the picture."

The above quote courtesy The Cartridge Collector link given above. This in reference to the .50-70 cartridge boxes referenced specifically, .45-70 boxes were slightly different. And of course there were variations.

RCJ

Athena Jake · February 19, 2008, 07:49:00 PM

Quote from: Pitspitr on February 19, 2008, 02:57:55 PM
FT,
To the best of my knowledge you have to make them yourself. That's what we do in the GMMCS. How many do you need to make? They are a bit time consuming but you can make them out of the cardboard backing off a legal pad.

Pitspitr,

What materials are used in the manufacture other than the back of a legal pad?
What adhesives, the paper that covers the box, procedures..?

Pitspitr · February 23, 2008, 07:03:17 PM

Quote from: Athena Jake on February 19, 2008, 07:49:00 PM
What materials are used in the manufacture other than the back of a legal pad?
What adhesives, the paper that covers the box, procedures..?

Sorry for the tardy reply, the flu's been kicking my butt.
elmers' type glue, that brown paper tape like butchers used to use, copy paper that is tan or off white.I think I have printed directions around here somewhere but there's not much point posting it here because without the templates for cutting the box it wouldn't do you much good. If you're really interested in doing it I could make photocopies of the directions and templates and mail them to you. (as long as it's not copywrited, and I don't think it is)

Athena Jake · February 25, 2008, 05:37:05 AM

Quote from: Pitspitr on February 23, 2008, 07:03:17 PM
If you're really interested in doing it I could make photocopies of the directions and templates and mail them to you. (as long as it's not copywrited, and I don't think it is)

I am even willing to send you a SASE to cover the mailing cost.
(Email Sent)

Pitspitr · February 25, 2008, 11:26:35 AM

Hi Guys
Sorry to report that it is copyrighted. I haven't checked with the owners of the copyright to see if they are still available. I'll report back when I know more.

Athena Jake · February 26, 2008, 04:11:09 AM

Have found a website that covers making a business card box with all similar parts and paper covering. So the concept is there, with a little rearranging.

Also figured out how to measure box size and stack the bullets.

Thank you for the direction and inspiration.

If the documentation is available through another source please post that information.

Gringo Jack · February 27, 2008, 03:38:24 PM

You might want to get ahold of Sgt. John Chapman. He is listed here. He was making alot of this kind of stuff real nice too.

FTrooper · March 03, 2008, 02:23:03 PM

I have heard Sgt. John Chapman makes some wonderful items...how exactly can a person contact him? I am having difficulty finding specific people on this site!

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett

Steel Horse Bailey · March 03, 2008, 04:52:58 PM

Howdy!

Chris, go to the main Forum page - the one with all the gold "coins" on the left side.

Way down at the bottom is a section regarding members. You can look up any member in alphabetical order and send him an I.M. or, if the addy is listed, an e-mule.

Happy Trails!

Gringo Jack · March 04, 2008, 01:34:40 PM

This should work Too!

Sgt John Chapman

Shaneuphoff@charter.net

SGT John Chapman · March 05, 2008, 04:49:51 PM

Yes,....I'm still around,.....

................And many more in the works,.............Shall I open the "Sweat Shop" again?.......

Steel Horse Bailey · March 06, 2008, 12:13:32 PM

I'm speechless!

Zouave Officer · March 06, 2008, 02:27:28 PM

I'll second the Silence Steel horse.

FTrooper · March 06, 2008, 04:35:16 PM

I THINK WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Guys thanks for ALL the help...I am sure this thread is going to get Sgt. JC a little more business than JUST Fort McKavett. Also thanks to your leads I have a guy supplying us as a "donation" some labels he has scanned and cleaned up...between these two men I think we are VERY set for the near future (now if I can just get the State to approve my Purchase Orders!

Chris Fischer
Curator/Intereprter
Fort McKavett SHS

Gringo Jack · March 07, 2008, 02:17:02 AM

Yes! speechless indeed!!

Sgt. John Chapman is very talented and heavy into detail, he also makes a wonderful prairie belt ( that's where mine came from!)
casts bullets, sews all his own military and cowboy action clothes... after teaching himself to sew, makes his own kepis, holsters, , gunbelts pouches, flags, and gunsmiths, Most defiantly a jack of all trades! and a damm good shot to boot.