1860 Army USA aka 1860 Army Uberti

[Capt, Woodrow F. Call]

For sometime back. i was in a Anique shop, and i found one original 1860 army 44 cal, but the cost was more then i can handle
2000$ 

But i was suprise'd that the rifling inside the barrel was much groover( bigger) then Uberti 1860 mod. To me it looks more perfect this original Colt ,
 my Uberti has smoother rifling inside. can it have something to do with black powder dirt when you shoot this gun, will this original gun be more cleaner after you have fired 6 or 10 shoots   My Uberi do not eat 10 shoots before i have to clean it???

What do you think?

[Ransom Gaer]

Original Colts may well have deeper grooves.  Never actually seen one.  From the way you describe it, it sounds like the original Colt has some pitting in the barrel.  That would account for the roughness in the barrel.  Blackpowder itself might not cause it, but the water it attracts would definitely cause problems like that.

As for your Uberti it sounds like you need some lubrication.  One way to do it is to put some vegetable shortening over each ball after you've loaded each chamber.  Here in the US there is a brand called Crosco that is used by some.  Another possibility is to use a lubed felt wad between the powder charge and the ball.  That is the method I use.  The lube keeps the powder fouling soft and allows the gun to keep functioning.  About a year ago I took one of my Uberti 1860 Armies out to the range to see how many rounds I could put through it before it locked up.  I quit at 75 because it was starting to get dark at the range and it was close to closing time.  The 1860 Army was still functioning fine.

Hope this helps.

Ransom Gaer

[Flint]

Original Colts had deep gain twist rifling.  Older Ubertis had fairly shallow rifling, almost smokeless type.  Later and current Ubertis have fairly deep rifling, but not quite as deep as the Colt.  Uberti uses a constant rate twist.

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[Pistolero]

Hery Flint,
Would that "Deep Gain Twist Rifling" be a more accurate type of rifling? Just curious.
Thanks,
Pistolero
Alabama

[Fox Creek Kid]

Would that "Deep Gain Twist Rifling" be a more accurate type of rifling?

No. Myth busted. 

[Pistolero]

Hey Fox  Creek,
I agree with you. While I have never shot an original cap and ball of any sort, I have owned and shot extensively over the years 3 1860 Colt Army .44s, and two or three .58 Cal Rem Armies and the one 51 Colt navy in .44 that I mentioned.  All of them were very accurate. Of couse this one might have shot high or low of point of aim, but that is in the sighting. For example, I had one 1860 Army that shot a foot hight of POA at 15 or 20 yards. But out at 35-45 it was dead on. 

I had one '58 Remington .44 from Cabella's that ws deadly accurate and smooth as silk and timed just perfectly right out of the box!! I shot a big fat cotton mouth snake swimming up a creek from a bridge that was I know was 25 yards away!  It was coming towards me with about four inches of his head up (the little concrete country bridge was about 10-15' above the water).  I did not think I could hit it but fired anyway. The round ball hit the water about four inches from its head. It seemed to piss it off! It turned on the steam and came swimming up the creek towards me with about eight inches of his head up, looking every which away. My next shot put one through its neck about two inches below its head! It thrashed around and finally died when about four feet from the shore.   I went down and fished it out with branch and man it was like big as my forearm and about four feet long, cold black on top and whitish-pink on its belly. I rode around with it on my hood of my truck for a while hung under my windshield wiper for a couple of hourse. You ought to have seen the people asking me about it, wantiing to take a gander at it.
 Later,
Pistolero
Alabama

[Flint]

I have been working on an original Remington Beals, and the rifling is at least double the depth of a current Uberti 36, which is itself at least twice as deep as a smokeless barrel.

[Long Johns Wolf]

FWIW: the Belgians with their Centaure aka Centennial Army aka 1960 NEW MODEL ARMY went into the opposite direction with their very shallow rifling.
Combined with their "tight in the hole tapered arbor" and identical dia of chamber and bore that is considered important for the accuracy of these pistols.
Long Johns Wolf

[Flint]

I didn't notice Pistolero's question. sorry.  The gain twist was an attempt to prevent stripping the rifling off the soft lead bullet, and to judge by the results of the Pietta target version of the Remington, it is more accurate.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Modern testing in rifles show no accuracy edge with gain twist rifling. If so then all the benchrest shooters would be clamoring for them. I'd imagine the reason the Pietta target version of the '58 shoots better has to be a compilation of many other factors, e.g., chambers reamed to correct diameter, better indexing, etc.

Colt played with different twist rates & directions (right & left hand) during the early cartridge era. The old deep groove rifling was a carryover from ML days and went the way of the dinosaur as it was determined that little rifling was needed to impart a spin. That's why a 3 groove Springfield 1903 shoots as well as a 6 groove.

There is one fellow left in Canada who makes gain twist rifle barrels & is kept in business by those who believe that somehow Harry Pope was the "way & the light" and all this modern scientific stuff is so much BS.    Ask yourself why no major maker today manufactures gain twist barrels when the slighest advantage would swamp your order list and line your pockets(?).