Major changes in the Uberti 1860 RMs

Lefty County · February 08, 2008, 10:41:20 PM

I have been shooting open-tops and RMs for a number of years. I decided to get a fourth RM to add to my three, so I ordered another one of the Cimarron models.

It is very different from the first three. The cylinder is longer, and the gas ring is shorter, as is the forcing cone on the back of the barrel assembly. The barrel is also an 1/8 inch longer as well, and the front sight is in a different location. The arbor is also different - looks more like the standard 1860 percussion arbor. The barrel/cylinder combo will NOT interchange with the older guns. The ratchet is also different, and I suspect changes in the hand, as it will allow the hammer to go to full cock with the cylinder off, which is not possible with the older production guns.

Overall the quality is better - deeper case colors, better finish, etc. However that the wedge slot was too big so they swaged the wedge to make it tighter. It either locks the gun up, or pops out. A standard replacement wedge drops in and falls out. It appears that the arbor slot is too long, not the barrel slot. I need to check, but it looks more like it will take the standard 1860 percussion wedge.

The changes in cylinder and forcing cone lengths should be for the better - the old production guns tended to crack at the bottom of forcing cone. However the mickey mouse "fix" for the wedge is bothersome.

Basically I have 3 of one model and 1 of anther, which will not interchange parts.

The old production guns have serials in the X02xxx range, where the new one is in the X11xxx range.

Anyone else seen these changes in the RM production? Are all the wedges goobered?

Thanks
County

Fox Creek Kid · February 08, 2008, 10:51:29 PM

One week before 9/11 in 2001 I bought one of the first '60 Army RM clones in .44 Colt to hit the shore here. It had the longer breech cone (same as Open Top) and a 7.5" barrel. I called Harvey Lane, who then worked for Cimarron, and asked about this as the prototype had the correct short breech cone (like a '60 Army percussion) and 8" barrel that the originals had. Harvey said the Italians monkeyed with the design. Imagine that.

Later, the Italians switched back to the correct breech cone & barrel length. I bought a new cylinder & barrel in the Spring of 2004 and had them fit on the frame as obviously it was not a simple "switch out". I had to polish the integral gas ring some to fit it. Now you know the story.

Lefty County · February 09, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

Thanks. My first three are from 2003. Did they change the wedge setup?

County

Fox Creek Kid · February 09, 2008, 04:39:47 PM

QuoteDid they change the wedge setup?

Not that I know of.

Lefty County · February 09, 2008, 08:08:59 PM

Looks like I have a tolerance stacking issue on the wedge. The conversion ring is about .010 further forward that the others, the length of the arbor is also a few thousandths longer, and the cylinder is about .010 shorter. Enough to cause a standard wedge to be a tad too narrow.

County

Deadeye Dick · February 10, 2008, 04:59:17 PM

LC, I have a Cimarron Uberti, RM in 44 Colt, S/N X11*** and it doesn't have the problem you described. You may want to contact Cimarron for advice and/or service. Abilene, one of the Pard's may be able to assist you. The only problem I've had with mine was the firing pin was too long and pierced the primers. A little off with a file took care of that.
Deadeye Dick

Lefty County · February 10, 2008, 08:32:03 PM

Abilene saw the post. Despite my misgivings on the factory bubba wedge fit, I think I am going to let it ride. I did an action job on it, and adjusted the wedge. It is now one of the smoothest of our OT and RMs, shoots to the sights, and runs MUCH cleaner than my other RMs. Probably cleaner due to the closer cylinder/barrel gap tolerances.

Despite letting this ride, it really reinforces the need to inspect before buying (I ordered this). Need to find a STOCKING dealer around here that carries calibers other than .45 LC and .38.

County

Lefty County · March 15, 2008, 10:05:04 PM

OK, I had an afternoon with some time, and good tunes on the radio, so I decided to take a second look at the problem pistol. While I had adjusted the wedge, there was end play in the barrel, and the wedge was ultra-sensitive.

After looking at everything on the pistol again, I pulled the base pin. The back of the conversion ring had a very clear "skip" in the milling that caused the plate to sit forward more than normal, and cant forward at the top. The height of the skip (about .006") was very much in line with the amount that this pistol differed in the conversion ring location from the others. I dressed the back of the ring off, and set in a spare base pin that I had.

It now uses a normal wedge, although a bit further in than the others. The cylinder is a bit shorter than the others, probably a result of the effort by Uberti to get it all to to work with the misfit conversion ring, so this doesn't surprise me. The only issue, and it is minor - is a bit of end play. The headspace is still good, as is the barrel to cylinder gap. The flip side is that the wedge is ultra-unsensitive now, and the pistol is pretty smooth. The barrel is not tipped up - sight picture matches my older model spare. Should make a good match. This is good as I think the wife has claimed my primary set...

Abilene, you may want to pass the issue on the poor machining on the conversion ring backside to the quality guys. This is the second of the four RMs that had an issue under the conversion ring (that's where the spare base pin came from!).

County