Approx what serial number starts the all US made? Hammer question.

[Walker 1847]

USFA as you all know uses the very correct cone firing pin on its hammer now,  is there a serial number range that USFA stopped using the italian hammer/dished-cone firing pin and began using the correct hammer/cone firing pin combination?
Looking at a USFA on Gunbroker, but owner will not take a picture of the hammer in the cocked position because he states that the gun is unturned and will not cock it for a photo.  Can I tell by the serial number if it is the latest and greatest?

Thanks brothers.

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Walker,
Don't have your answer but you brought up an interesting point.  When USFA got started, and were still using imported parts, their guns did use the tapered firing pins, similar to those used on the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts.  I believe that they continued to use the tapered firing pins even when in production of the "all American made" guns.  A couple of years ago they switched over the the 1st generation style conical firing pin.  By the time they did this it was well established that their guns were entirely U.S. made.   Checking for the conical firing pin would be a simple way to insure that your gun was an "All American."
Now I have a couple of questions... 
In what year did Colt change over from the conical pin to the modern, tapered firing pin?
When did USFA do away with the tapered firing pin and start using the conical firing pin on all of their models?
CJF

[Doc Sunrise]

For just a sampling of information I have a USFA Premium in the 231XX range made in either 2004 or 2003 that has the Early 1st Generation type firing pin.  I also have a Rodeo made in 2003 with the early type firing pin.  So that makes at least 5 years the minimum.

On the question of when did Colt and at what serial number the change between conical and concave firing pins occur is not clear.  What I can determine from Kuhnhausen and Kopec is that the change may have occurred around 1885-1887.  After a look at pictures of Rinaldo Carr inspected revolvers, I believe the concave style firing pin was being used before 1890.  After looking at David Clark inspected revolvers between 1880 and 1887, it appears that there is a mixture of conical and concave firing pins being used.  This is not concrete because of the many revolvers that were refitted, rebuilt, and refinished that may have received new firing pins. 

But something very interesting occurred in 1883.  Colt was delayed in filling their Military contract due to a change of using Steel over Iron for their Frames and Hammers.  In fact Colt states that delays occur during 1884 and 1885 because of a new retrofitting of internals using the new steel material.  Kuhnhausen also states that the Bolt was changed over to steel by 1885.  Nobody mentions exactly when firing pins change over, but the many Military contracts that Colt filled, firing pins were always on the spare parts list.  So, I do not believe Colt would have just stopped using the stock of conical firing pins until inventories ran out, especially since they were being used on previously made Colts with Iron Frames and Hammers.  But I am guessing if the Frame, Hammer, Hand, and Bolt was changed over to steel by 1885 for new revolvers, that it makes sense the firing pin was also changed around this time frame, and that change may be identifiable by the concave firing pin that had less material because it was now stronger.  Given a little time for inventories to run out, my guess is the change occurred between 1885-1887, or serial numbers 114,000 – 125,000.

This is purely a guess from a totally non-expert person, so take it for what it is worth.

[Walker 1847]

Thanks again, Doc. The serial number is 22747, a nickle gun.
Do you think this would have the early 'cone' firing pin?

Thanks!
Walker

[Doc Sunrise]

Walker 1847,

I would like to make sure by e-mailing Gary, but he has left for the show.  I took a look at the pictures, I would wager from what you can see of the firing pin protruding through the cylinder gap that it is the concave style, not the early conical style.
But, that is obviously not something I would bet my life on.  Also, in thinking that the serial is only 400 apart, the difference is actually greater due to the idea that Nickel guns are done in-house and the Bone Cased Frame I have was done at Turnbull's, which Gary said does take a good amount of time.  I wish I could tell you more definitively.  An idea though would be to wait out the auction since there are no bidders right now, and the auction should renew for another week until Feb. 10 in which  maybe Gary could answer the question for you.

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Walker,
I have a nickel plated gun with serial number 222XX and it has the conical firing pin.
CJF

[Doc Sunrise]

I went back to an article I saw by Smith n' Jones where he states after talking with President Donnely of USFA that USFA firearms were made by all American made parts some time in 1997.  The next big event was the move into the new facility in Hartford during 2001-2002, where USFA increased the parts made in-house.  So, this information would lead someone to believe that the gun in question should have the conical firing pin, and in light of the evidence that Capt. John Fitzgerald observed, you should be safe.  Worst case scenario is you could change the firing pin if it turned out to be the concave style since both are pinned in the same fashion, which is different than the free floating style firing pin found in later Colts.

Ah, just go for it!

[Walker 1847]

Thanks to all of you.
Guess theres only one way to find out for sure......

Walker

[RRio]

Thanks again, Doc. The serial number is 22747, a nickle gun.
Do you think this would have the early 'cone' firing pin?

Thanks!
Walker

Yes. My newest is in the 223XX range, and it has a conical firing pin.