Money Belt ?

[dbrown3]

 
I have a couple of questions about "Money belt" gun belts and or cartridge belts.
Why did the old cowboys call them money belts and how did they work for holding money?  Were they used for cartridge belts also?
What weight land type leather is used for them and does anyone have a good pattern/instructions.
Maybe some good pics?
Lots of ?s I know, but thanks for any help you can give.
Tryin to make best use of my holiday today.

[St. George]

Simple - because they could hold money while they held cartridges...

The body of the belt is made of relatively thin leather - folded length-wise after the cartridge loops and billets have been sewn on.

It leaves what's essentially a long, hollow tube that's not only a very comfortable fit, but allows for the storage of things like Bills of Sale and currency.

Remember, most 'currency' of the era was hard money in the shape of coinage...

The opening is under the billet that holds the buckle and works much like those old coin purses you had as a kid - the type that you had to squeeze in order to open.

Both ends are sewn shut...

The billet essentially acts as a 'lock' - especially when buckled.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Rascal Ralph]

St. George, please explaine-"both ends are sewn shut"?  RR

[Springfield Slim]

Both ends are NOT sewn shut, I'm sure he knows that, just a typo. One end is sewn shut, and the end with the buckle is made with a slot in the end of the belt. You pass the billet through the slot when you buckle the belt up, thus sealing off that end of the belt. My main belt is this type, and I made it proper so that it actually can be used as a money belt. Some of the cheaper "money belts" you see for sale are just the folded leather but don't actually work properly as a money belt. Not a big deal as we don't put money in them anymore, but I just like to do things as proper as I can. Will Ghormley's pattern for a money belt from Tandy is a good choice if you want to make one. I used it but just didn't use the rivets, don't like riveits.

[ChuckBurrows]

Here ya go - note how the belt is sewn along three edges and there is a slot cut trhough the belt underneath the buckle - the billet goes through the slot then through the buckle:



this one has laced through cartridge loops - I generally use 3/4 oz calf hide for the body (for a heavier belt use 3/4 oz but it's not as malleable and thus IMO not as comfortable) and 7/8 oz for the two buckle billets...

[Buck Stinson]

Most  early saddle makers like Meanea, Gallatin , Collins and others, referred to money belt material as "pebble grain calf skin".  Some, including all those makers I just mentioned, sewed their belts shut from end to end, like the reproduction rig in the photo.  The only opening was a slot in the belt under the buckle.  Closer to the turn of the century, a few makers left the entire buckle end of the belt open but also included the slot.  If money belts are made properly, they are extremely comfortable.

Adios,
Buck

[St. George]

As you'll note from the two excellent photos provided - the ends are sewn shut.

On the bottom rig - you can see the opening I refer to right under the buckle - where you see the underlying yellow background material.

On both rigs - you can see how they've been stitched.

Good Luck, should you try building your own - the softer leather makes for a very comfortable rig.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Deadeye Don]

I cant think of a safer place to carry silver dollars than in a money belt that also happens to have a holster carrying a 45 colt in it. 

[Rascal Ralph]

Thank you St.George! I had built one, love the comfort, but left the buckle end open. I used rawhide buckstitching like the one on the cover of "Packing Iron", and continued it on around the end only on the outer piece of leather. When I start the new one, I'll do like you described. Trying to get some authenticity!

[Hoof Hearted]

Not to sound like a know it all......................

If you think about how long one wore a single pair of trousers (usually dress pants from a suit of clothes) on the trail with heavy and sometimes sharp objects in the pockets, you can begin to understand that the pockets probably did not last very long. Money is, well precious so the comfort and necessity took over in the form of a "money belt".

Yes they are extremely comfortable
I have seen examples in pigskin as well as "pebble grain", both tanned soft.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Gents

              There was just a thread the last couple of days in regard to the width of gun belts, and as you can see by these earlier post, the money belt was made in different sizes , to accommodate, the different sizes in stature of men that would be wearing them, being someone thats been fooling around with different kinds of gun leather since 1956 , I think I've tried just about every thing out there , and I've come to the conclusion, that I like a money belt the best of all , for a carry rig , that doesn't mean I don't like my ranger belts or my fast draw rigs , just that these money belt are so comfortable , the softer leather , allows you to bend over without haveing the belt cut into you, it conforms to your body, having a 3" to 3 1/2" money belt allows me to carry a full belt of 45 bullits, and two Cheyene holsters ,two sixguns, all day in comfort , because the money belt is made of thin leather , there is usually no tooling on this kind of belt , and the belt almost foldes up like a neck tie , for a big Pard like my ownself , I find this is really the way to go, for ME. IMO


                                                 Ten Wolves 

[will ghormley]

Money belts of the type we are discussing first became popular in the gold fields of California during the gold rush starting in 1848 with the dicovery of gold at Sutter's mill.  Gold dust and nuggets were carried in the belts.  I've seen examples of belts that were sewn shut, except for the billet slot, and those where the end was left completely open. 

With the end left open, a hanky was stuffed in the end to keep the gold from trickelin' out.  It was easier to dump the contents out when the end was un-sewn.  As stated, when a pistol was hung on the belt, the gold was even more secure.  Later, after the popularity and availability of cartridge pistols, the comfortable money belt became the platform for cartridge loops.  Since most cowboys were paid in coin, the adaptable money/cartridge belt worked even better to carry a cowboy's poke.

Will

[Springfield Slim]

From a practical point of view, I like to keep the one end open. Otherwise it is a real PIA to get the money out, especially foldin' money. Just imagine a cowboy with big scarred fingers tryin' to reach into that little slot to get his money out. I'll bet more than one slit that stitching after a while. " Hold on darlin', I got a a dollar in here, really I do. Wait, don't go , just gimme a minute.Gold darn frickin' frackin' stupid money belt. Where's my knife!"

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Springfield Slim

            I agree , with hands the size of mine , I couldn't see me trying to get anything out of that little hole by it's self , I use Will Ghormley's gun belt patterns, and on all my moneybelts, and I leave the buckle side open, it makes it a lot easier, to put things in and take things out , and with the billet tongue slipped through the slot , everything is locked in securally, like Will said, if they could keep gold dust in a money belt , by just stuffing a rag in the end , and then pulling the billet tongue through to lock it in their , anything I have to carry in their , I'll never have to worry about it comming out. As far as looks go it always looks better to have both ends sewn, but a sewn end, just wouldn't work for me, unless I'm not going to use the belt as a money belt. I now some pards ,just like the comfort of the money belt , and don't really care about storage , and on some of their belts both ends are sewed shut,  and the billets are sewed compleatly through both sides of leather , and that goes for the bullit loops also, I've heard that some of John Waynes money belts were done this way , because thats the way the Duke wanted it, I guess you get less rolling of the leather this way.


                                      Ten Wolves

[Buck Stinson]

You have to remember boys, that money cartridge belts were not designed for or ever intended to be used with paper money.   From their inception in the mid 1870's to the late 1880's, most everyone on the frontier used hard coin.  Over the years, I've owned several early money belts that actually showed the shape of the coins that they carried, by the marks on the belt. 

Adios,
Buck

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

How Do Buck

          I know what you mean , My Granddad had one like that , it had four silver dollars in it that he kept for good luck , and A JUST IN CASE THING, when I was little I didn't understand what those circles were, they wouldn't move around at all , I guess they found a spot in their and decided to stay, when my Granddad passed I never did finded out what happen to that belt, I sure would like to have it today, the one he had ,had that nice pebble grain in it, and the color was a little brownish gray, almost like Chuck Burrows money belt that is posted here , but a few shades lighter.



                                           Ten Wolves

[Boot]

Money belts of the type we are discussing first became popular in the gold fields of California during the gold rush starting in 1848 with the dicovery of gold at Sutter's mill.  Gold dust and nuggets were carried in the belts.  I've seen examples of belts that were sewn shut, except for the billet slot, and those where the end was left completely open. 

With the end left open, a hanky was stuffed in the end to keep the gold from trickelin' out.  It was easier to dump the contents out when the end was un-sewn.  As stated, when a pistol was hung on the belt, the gold was even more secure.  Later, after the popularity and availability of cartridge pistols, the comfortable money belt became the platform for cartridge loops.  Since most cowboys were paid in coin, the adaptable money/cartridge belt worked even better to carry a cowboy's poke.

Will

Hello Will,
             I've not seen any of these early type (49er belts) that you describe, are there any examples anywhere that I can see ?

Thanks.
Boot.

[Buck Stinson]

I too, would like to see an example of the belt Will is talking about.   It obviously isn't a money/cartridge belt, so I can't invision a belt of that type with an open end,designed to carry gold dust.  The dust these men looked for was literally their most prized possession.  It doesn't seem logical that they would put it in an open ended belt, with the hopes that a hanky would keep it in place.   

I have seen "dust" belts that were made and used during the California Gold Rush.  These belts were quite common and in fact spread to other discovery areas all across the west.  These were very narrow belts, generally made of doe skin like a gold poke.  The general design was sewn shut from one end to the other across the top edge, then they were sewn vertically every 3" to 5" down the length of the belt.  When the belt was slit open between these stitch lines, a pocket was formed in which the gold dust, coins or small nuggets gould be placed.  To keep things tightly in place, a long flap was sewn to the top edge of the belt which would fall down over the slots and closed them off.  These "dust" belts were worn high around the waist, with the flap against the body to keep it tightly sealed.   The ends were made to fasten with a small buckle and straps or long narrow pieces of canvas that were sewn to each end that could then be tied in a knot around the waist.  I'm sure these belts were almost always worn under the shirt or coat.

Adios,
Buck

[St. George]

Much like the belts of today that travellers carry - these early belts were to be concealed when worn.

Gold Dust is what it is - sand-like - and like sand,  it can leak past any sort of hanky.

The belts I've seen from the era were as suggested - long 'pokes', made of deerskin and flap closures.

They still pop up from time to time - but given their association with 'gold' - their prices are commensurate with the cachet of the '49er's.

The cartridge belt/money belt was from a later era, when more coinage than dust was used as currency.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Springfield Slim]

Buck: Well that was a hell of an impractical design. Why not just have a solid tube belt with one end open, and then you coud pour out what you wanted? With all those mini pockets and flaps to hold it in I bet a lot of dust was lost.