Another Medals Question...........

[Rancid Roy]

..........tighten your chinstraps and ride along!

If my soon to be fictitious Major saw service in the French/Italy campaign of 1859, or any number of the British campaigns through the year 1889, and he was awarded the campaign medals for those actions.....

1. Would these medals be worn by this Major while stationed/serving in the American West and how so?

2. Is the wearing of campaign medals frowned upon in any way applicable to a SASS/CAS venue and not an actual living history/re-enactment event?

This Major is to be a lot like Rancid Roy, a rascal, not a hero, but he has gotten around so hence the campaigns overseas and the need to "display" that.

If I can be directed as to where to look up the regulations on this subject I would appreciate that as well. I am reading my Steffen books and haven't found any reference to wearing of foreign service medals.

I do know it has been done in the United States military since WWI.

Thanks.

[Pitspitr]

Here's an article on Myles Keogh.

http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/plains.html

[US Scout]

Roy,

First off, 19th century uniform regulations, by our modern standards, are a little more vague than we are used to.  Since few medals were issued to American military personnel until well into the 20th century there was little need to establish criteria as to what could or could not be worn, or even how they were worn.  Many medals that are seen being worn in various photographs are more often than not those of a veteran organization, to include attending a significant reunion or gathering, and other than being somewhere in the area of the left breast, there wasn't much consistency.
 
As a general rule, medals/decorations/awards were worn on formal occasions such as parades, balls, and the like.  They would have been worn when the occasion called for it, regardless of where you were posted.  Obviously, many wore to them when they had their portraits made.  Some countries allowed them to be worn at other times, but since you are protraying an American major then you should follow US Army customs.

Within the GAF, as we discussied on the earlier thread you started, and assuming you want to be historically correct, you could wear appropriate campaign awards (the been there, done that type awards) that your persona could have earned a right to wear and been expected to wear at the time you are portraying.   You should avoid the Civil War or Indian War campaign medals since they didn't come out until the 20th century, as well as any others of similar nature as pointed out by St George.

Within SASS there is no restriction on what you wear, or how you wear it.   As I pointed out previously, I wear my SASS badge suspended from a medal ribbon when attending SASS events.  This summer I went on a trip to Gettysburg with about 24 SASS folks.  At dinner one night I wore my SASS "Medal", but most nights I wore my GAF medal.  I did the same at this year's SASS convention.  When I go to NCOWS events, I only wear my GAF medal since they place a greater emphasis on historical accuracy.

The GAF is not a reenactment or living history group, though we have members who engage in both activities.  We were created by CAS shooters who wanted to wear a uniform when they shot, but now we include not only shooters, but reenactors and history enthusiasts, some who don't shoot at all.  We do not REQUIRE anyone to purchase or wear a uniform, though we ENCOURAGE our members to do so.  I'm pleased to say that many of our members do acquire and wear a uniform, and as a whole we lean more toward the historically authentic look than the Hollywood image. 

In summary, if your persona was a soldier of fortune and was in the right place at the right time to be awarded a campaign medal, then you can wear it.  I doubt anyone would be fooled into thinking that you actually served in the Crimea or the Zulu Wars any more than some of us had been in the War with Mexico. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks again Colonel Pitspitr and Commander U. S. Scout.

Colonel Pitspitr, the information on Colonel Myles Keogh [it is correct to refer to him in his brevet rank?] was very interesting. I have of course read of him in the Custeriana I have read but never knew his complete history. He must have been an interesting man to know.

It is also interesting that in the later images it doesn't appear that he is wearing all of his "Papal" medals as he was wearing in the first, early C.W.  image. Am I correct in assuming that the first, early C.W. image is in "undress" with the standing collar frock coat? Or perhaps an officer's shell?

Commander U. S. Scout thank you for the response. If it is possible could you at some time post a picture here of your SASS and ribbon combination? As I had stated in other posts I had some time ago thought of the same idea versus wearing what would appear to be a "Sheriff's" badge while in a proper military uniform.

Regards, RR.

[US Scout]

Commander U. S. Scout thank you for the response. If it is possible could you at some time post a picture here of your SASS and ribbon combination? As I had stated in other posts I had some time ago thought of the same idea versus wearing what would appear to be a "Sheriff's" badge while in a proper military uniform.

Regards, RR.

I'll see what I can do.  Essentially, it is nothing more than a red-white-blue ribbon I purchased at a local sports trophy store.  The bottom of the ribbon has a small ring.  I attached my SASS badge by its pin through the ribbon ring and - PRESTO - a SASS medal. 

I got the idea from Sgt Drydock a couple of years ago. 


BTW, Keogh appears to be wearing a company officer frock coat in the first photograph.  Brevet Brig. Gen. Daniel J. Keily is shown in a field officer's frock coat.  I can't enlarge the photos so I can't be sure what Keogh is wearing in the Buford staff photograph, but it appears they are all wearing sack coats or roundabouts.

US Scout
Bvt Brig Gen

[River City John]

What may be more helpful,Rancid- I believe the only real instructions/suggestions are that a maximum of three medals are to be worn on the breast, with the GAF Medal to be the one closest to the 'heart', if owned. (Brass will correct me on this.)

I have ordered one of the new GAF medals and plan to wear it on my GAF Naval uniform with another GAF medal I won at the first Muster, plus an NCOWS medal from one of our NCOWS shoots. This is about the extent of the decorations I want to risk wearing on any of my uniforms as they suffer from exposure and wear-and-tear due to normal activity.

Something to keep in mind about our GAF Medal. This is where your pride and sense of accomplishment within GAF can be displayed. It offers a venue to display, in shorthand, your GAF involvment and journey, through addition of Stars of Merit, etc. As a Veteran, you are allowed a special emblem, too.


RCJ

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks again Commander U. S. Scout, I have essentially been doing the same thing and making "medals" for employees I work with. I was thinking there might be a source of some sort of "clasp" other than a ring thing to coble together a GAF/SASS Medal.

Thanks River City John, I was watching thefirst GAF medal and waited to long to nuy one and have been following the progress on the second and this time I will not dally.

Regards, R.R.

[Pitspitr]

Colonel Pitspitr, the information on Colonel Myles Keogh [it is correct to refer to him in his brevet rank?] was very interesting. I have of course read of him in the Custeriana I have read but never knew his complete history. He must have been an interesting man to know.

It is also interesting that in the later images it doesn't appear that he is wearing all of his "Papal" medals as he was wearing in the first, early C.W.  image. Am I correct in assuming that the first, early C.W. image is in "undress" with the standing collar frock coat? Or perhaps an officer's shell?

Gen. Scout answered you question as or more thoroughly than I could.

To answer you question about referencing a brevet: Who am I  to tell you that you can't, when you addressed me by mine? If it isn't correct think of all the people who've been incorrect all these years talking about "General" Custer.

Everything I've read said Keogh was a very interesting person to know as well as an outstanding, no BS soldier.

A side note to the Keogh article; the John J. Coppinger that the article mentions, commanded Ft. Hartsuff (the site of next year's GAF Grand Muster)from 1875 to at least 1876 (I'd have to go back and check references for the exact end date)

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks for all the great info on yet another interesting person.

I like thew "Wild Geese" website, as well.

[US Scout]

Colonel Pitspitr, the information on Colonel Myles Keogh [it is correct to refer to him in his brevet rank?]

It was quite customary in the years after the Civiil War to address officers by their former ranks, whether volunteer or brevet, even if they were not filling a billet in that rank (Lt Col George Crook, as one example, was filling a brigadier general's position in his brevet rank in Arizona after the war, not being promoted to the actual rank until 1872).   In a book I'm reading on the Great Souix War of 1876, one diarist noted "General" Custer addressing Colonel Benteen.  Custer, as most of us know, was a lieutenant colonel at the time, and Benteen a major, yet each observed the custom.

While the Army officially disapproved of the custom, it was routinely flouted as there were few other ways at the time of acknowledging an officer's war time service or accomplishments.  For a brief time after the war they even allowed officers to continue wearing the uniform and insignia of their highest rank, thus lieutenants might be attired as colonels, and captains and majors as generals, both of whom may have been reporting to officers in their regiments who did not earn higher volunteer or brevet ranks - thus making for some awkward situations - and thus the regulation was changed.

US Scout
BREVET Brig Gen

[Major Matt Lewis]

Just throwing this out there....

I wear my SASS badge on my belt in a black holder in the back.  Positioned there, it is quite innocuous.

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks again and once again U. S. Scout cofirms what my scant readings suggested. Although I did not know of the custom of acutually wearing the brever rank shortly after the Civil War and yes it would have been confusing.

Hello Major Matt Lewis, good to hear from you again and thank you for closing the other thread, it was time. Thanks for the SASS badge idea, I have of course seen that done a lot and it might be a thing to do.

Regards, R.R.

[Dr. Bob]

Since you are going for "fantasy", you might look for some medals in an antique store, add some different ribbon and call it whatever you want.  Hardly anyone will know the difference!   Might have a Turkish Crimean medal, which was awarded to French and British soldiers as well and is a campaign type medal.  I'm sure that if you search the "militaria" category on eBay, you will find lots of medals to work with.

[Rancid Roy]

Howdy Dr. Bob, I thought of that but the fantasy of my "Major" is not total. I want him to have served in real theaters....but not all that well, nor with the "right kind" of distinction......kind of a Major Rancid Roy under a different name.

I have purchased a few British campaign medals and they will probably suffice.

Maybe I could cobble up the Marine Corps Drinking Medal!!! When I was in I could have qualified for one of those.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I'll see what I can do.  Essentially, it is nothing more than a red-white-blue ribbon I purchased at a local sports trophy store.  The bottom of the ribbon has a small ring.  I attached my SASS badge by its pin through the ribbon ring and - PRESTO - a SASS medal. 

Interesting. I have seen a medal a lot like this at the local Army post clothing sales store, that has an American flag ribbon. It's not really an issued medal. If I hadn't already riveted my SASS badge to a badge holder, I'd have bought one of these and made a SASS medal out of it.
I have two persona in CAS. One of a 1st USV Captain from the Span Am war (when the timeframe is the late 1890s), and another for a former CSA Captain from Florida who'd fought in the south and moved out west afterward (when the timeframe in mind is the 1880s). The former CSA impression is mostly civilian garb. These cover my real life history as an Army officer, and all the years I spent growing up as a CW re-enactor in Florida. I'm waiting for a Florida belt buckle and a sword belt to show up to hang my holsters on and a Artillery officer's kepi, and I'll probably order one of the reproduction Confederate veteran medals (Also known as the "Southern Cross of Honor") that are out there, as it'd be historically correct and wouldn't break any more laws than any other veteran commemorative. I know the medal was worn often, my great grandfather wore his into the 1930s when he passed away. Then again, I'm not 100% sure when this medal came out, maybe it is later than I think?