Question about wearing medals [repros] of valor

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks again for the info and input.

My comment on "Stolen Valor" is about a book written by a former Vietnam Vet who was late 40ish or early 50ish and began to get tired of the "Vietnam Veterans" he had met and heard of who where claimiing of very lurid activites in the war....and most likely false. So he wrote an expose. He exposed CBS and their falshoods of supposed Vietnam Veterans who were living in the woods of the Northwest. He tracked down a well known picture of a supposed "Vet" weeping at the Wall....the "Vet" never was one. He exposed Dan Rather who claims he was was Marine...he was surveyed out of Boot Camp by about week three...so he was never a Marine. It's a very good read and I recommend it to all Vietnam Veterans who truly served.

My Father, who fought with the 6th MarDiv at Okinawa, told me when I was a kid how returning Marines would hit the PX and buy ribbons to wear home, ones they did not earn.

As I said I am researching U. S. Cavalry of the time period of 1862 to 1886 and am working towards actually two personas, a Major and a First Sergeant. I am finding out what was printed here that many medals were issued long after the event. If I do "wear" some medals I think I will stick with the foreign campaign medals such as the British Ashanti and French/Italian 1859 sort of thing. They were issued after the campaigns in enough time to be worn according to what I have found so far.

Thanks Pitspitr for the info on Flashman.....sounds like some entertaining reading....and proof that all wars have had their imposters.

I just won a copy of the Kearny Medal on ebay and it is the first medal for valor issued to American troops according to what I can find. And it appears that is was issued during the Civil War and immediatley after. However I will not wear it....I do have a problem with someone wearing any medal of "Valor" when they have not performed the feat...even in a war of long ago. The thought did cross my mind as my previous post implies but I am not comfortable with that. I also "ebayed" a repro German Iron Cross of 1870 but I need to research that a bit more. Iron Crosses seem to have been given out for many things.

U. S. Scout, thanks for your detailed response...initially I searched the GAF web site and found no mention of wearing of medals and badges....perhaps something should be posted there? I too think it would be improper to show up at a shoot wearing modern medals on an 1870/1880's uniform.

As to the SASS badge, I am planning to do the same as you suggested. I will take the new SASS badge and cobble a ribbon to it and make it look like a 19th Century medal/medallion.

Thanks again and watch here soon for the report on duty of my new Major "Persona".

Here's the start of my "Major" persona in his "campaign" uniform. A pair of Lyman 1860 Armies, a hammered double, and a Taylor's 56/50 Spencer was shot that day at the local match. You can see the cartridge carrier on the belt with 56/50 ammunition.

[US Scout]

U. S. Scout, thanks for your detailed response...initially I searched the GAF web site and found no mention of wearing of medals and badges....perhaps something should be posted there?

As to the SASS badge, I am planning to do the same as you suggested. I will take the new SASS badge and cobble a ribbon to it and make it look like a 19th Century medal/medallion.

Actually, I've been thinking for some time that we need to post GAF policies on the website.  We don't really have that many but they do need to be posted where people can find them.  Just another thing for me to arrange in my bountiful free time!   

You should be able to find a medal-style ribbon at a store that sells sports trophies and plaques, or possibly an arts and craft store.  I think my ribbon cost about $1.

Not wearing any medals awarded for valor is probably a smart move. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Deadeye Don]

I think there are plenty of creative ways we can make up our own medals without having to use real ones that someone sold on ebay or that a large company is selling on line.  I think we are all sensitive to what is the right thing to do. 

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks again for the input and I wish to clarify what I hope is a misconception.

This "Major" persona I intend to "create" is not about wearing a bunch of medals to look the hero. It is more the wearing of a few medals to indicate his service overseas as well as in the United States. A visual "signpost" if you will of his "adventures".

The difficulty is that there were campaign medals from several of the foriegn countries issued during the time period we discuss....except for the United States....as such the only way to indicate "service" or "action" while in the U. S. [during the 19th Century] was via a Medal of Honor or the Kearny Medal. There are definite modern restrictions to wearing a modern Medal of Honor and sensitive restrictions to wearing any Medal of Honor from any period. As to the Kearny Medal I was sensing a "gray area" on that one and leaning towards not wearing it and wanting to see what the opinions were on this forum as it too was awarded for bravery.

I will probably be wearing my new SASS badge with red/white/blue "ribbonery" and foriegn campaign medals.....and then quite rarely actually because most of the "Major's" costumery is going to be "campaign style".

U. S Scout I concur with you on the lack of time alotted. I just finished three years of presidentship of a SASS/CAS club and time was never abundant in those duties and life's duties....this passion for historic play is sometimes too consuming.

Regards and thanks.

[ColonelFlashman]

As I said I am researching U. S. Cavalry of the time period of 1862 to 1886 and am working towards actually two personas, a Major and a First Sergeant. I am finding out what was printed here that many medals were issued long after the event. If I do "wear" some medals I think I will stick with the foreign campaign medals such as the British Ashanti and French/Italian 1859 sort of thing. They were issued after the campaigns in enough time to be worn according to what I have found so far.

First off, you better do the Research to Make Bloody well sure that there were Americans envolved in those Campaigns before you start sporting them about & Cheque the U.S. Regs & Orders first to see what is acceptable in wearing Foreign Medals.

Thanks Pitspitr for the info on Flashman.....sounds like some entertaining reading....and proof that all wars have had their imposters.

Nice, you didn't bother to have a Look @ the Most researched Flashman Papers site, "Sir Harry Flashman's Memoirs", as Wikipedia,  that Pitspitr suggested you look @, is Only a thumbnail description, full of libelas statements & you Better watch whom you are calling an Imposter!

I just won a copy of the Kearny Medal on ebay and it is the first medal for valor issued to American troops according to what I can find. And it appears that is was issued during the Civil War and immediatley after. However I will not wear it....I do have a problem with someone wearing any medal of "Valor" when they have not performed the feat...even in a war of long ago. The thought did cross my mind as my previous post implies but I am not comfortable with that. I also "ebayed" a repro German Iron Cross of 1870 but I need to research that a bit more. Iron Crosses seem to have been given out for many things.

You might wish to look into State issued Medals of Valour & also State issued Campaign Medals as well. Think of wearing them on your Full & Mess Dress uniforms, as if you are giving a Living History presentation, or as a Cast member in a Play, Film or on the Tele. The Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz), if you do your research, had several Classes & were awarded if you Qualified for it, in sequence, you could not get the G.C.I.C. unless you received the first two, though they could be awarded simultaneously. Iron Cross 2nd class (suspended by a specific colour riband left breast of the tunic), Iron Cross 1st Class (pin or screw back attached directly to the left breast of the tunic), & you could be awarded these two Medals multiple times indicated by Oak Leaves,Grand Cross of the Iron Cross suspended by a specific colour riband from the neck), Star of the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross (pin or screw back mounted on the right breast of the uniform).

U. S. Scout, thanks for your detailed response...initially I searched the GAF web site and found no mention of wearing of medals and badges....perhaps something should be posted there? I too think it would be improper to show up at a shoot wearing modern medals on an 1870/1880's uniform. As to the SASS badge, I am planning to do the same as you suggested. I will take the new SASS badge and cobble a ribbon to it and make it look like a 19th Century medal/medallion.

Well one of the first things You have to take into consideration is the Fact that the U.S. Regs & Orders only make allowences for the wearing of Medals, of any sort, on the Full (full size medals) & Mess Dress (miniature medals) uniforms. Which means you'll Not find anyone wearing in the U.S. military even wearing Riband Bars on their field uniforms such as we British do.

Thanks again and watch here soon for the report on duty of my new Major "Persona".
Here's the start of my "Major" persona in his "campaign" uniform. A pair of Lyman 1860 Armies, a hammered double, and a Taylor's 56/50 Spencer was shot that day at the local match. You can see the cartridge carrier on the belt with 56/50 ammunition.

And I see by you Picture that you've Gone Silver Screen Military & not Period Correct Military, as you've your Rank Bars mounted on your Westkit (not regulation). Do You have any idea how Uncomfortable that would be to wear w/ your Campaign Blouse on over the top of that configuration w/ the other set of Rank Bars worn on that article of clothing? When not wearing your Field Blouse w/ your Rank Bars on it, your Rank is indicated by the Width of Gold Stripe on the Outside Seem of your Mounted Breeches. You are not wearing Cavalry boots, your Mounted Breeches look to be made out of Cotton, not Kearsey, which may or may not have the Proper re-enforced seat & you are wearing a Modern Slide Cartridge Holder. If you wish to discuss improving your look, we are all here to help.

[Drydock]

Now be nice Flashy, lets just ease him into this . . . Though the shoulderboards on the vest have GOT to go!   

[River City John]

I love the History but I seem to be one of the few, the proud,. . . .mostly the FEW, who feels compelled to volunteer the reminder that one of the nice things about GAF is the By-Laws allow for both the fact and the fantasy.

So Rancid, if you want to develop an accurate period uniform for your persona, then you've come to the right place.
On the other hand, if you just want to have the same fun putting together a Hollywood/imagineered uniform version for your persona, then you've still come to the right place.

RCJ

[Dr. Bob]

Dang John,

There ya go bringing up the facts as they are!   Some of us just aren't wired that way!

[Pitspitr]

I love the History but I seem to be one of the few, the proud,. . . .mostly the FEW, who feels compelled to volunteer the reminder that one of the nice things about GAF is the By-Laws allow for both the fact and the fantasy.

So Rancid, if you want to develop an accurate period uniform for your persona, then you've come to the right place.
On the other hand, if you just want to have the same fun putting together a Hollywood/imagineered uniform version for your persona, then you've still come to the right place.

RCJ

You sure have a gift for words. I just wish we had a few more of the emoicons from the old frontier spot. (I guess that about the only thing I miss from there)

[Rancid Roy]

Well Flashman if by some of your comments you're joking around....I can take a joke. If you are otherwise a puffed up expert on militaria and seeking to take me to task over what is a fantasy game....then shove it.

CAS started as a fantasy and became SASS which is a fantasy and GAF sprouted from that and it too is a fantasy. And if my fanstasy is such that the persona in question went off to fight overseas conflicts...its still a fantasy and I don't "bloody well" have to prove it to anyone.

And you obviously are not as well read as you think. In the American west, while on campaign the uniform of choice, even down to lowly privates, ran from C.W. issue, to 1872 issue, to 1876 issue, to civilian purchase, all worn by members of the same outfit. There are documented images of U. S. troops wearing nothing but buckskin, officers with no rank insignia, enlisted men wearing civiilian trousers with their issue sack coat. There is a picture of an enlisted man standing next to his mount at Fort Union in complete issue uniform....except for his civilian Mexican loop holster. There are images of Canadian Mounties and military in the field in hodge-podge dress as well.

"....you Better watch whom you are calling an Imposter!"

I did not mean to say that YOU were an imposter but if you are....wear the shoe that fits.

"Well one of the first things You have to take into consideration is the Fact that the U.S. Regs & Orders only make allowences for the wearing of Medals, of any sort, on the Full (full size medals) & Mess Dress (miniature medals) uniforms. Which means you'll Not find anyone wearing in the U.S. military even wearing Riband Bars on their field uniforms such as we British do."

Again you should read more and spout less....it was at times the case that out in a remote outpost and maybe even at the more less so remote an officer might be invited to a soiree that required a little dressing up and the wearing of his medals. But in his remote posting he had no dress uniform so he stuck his medals on his "less dress" outfit after he brushed it up a bit and wore them as he saw fit. General Custer's entire house burned down at Fort Lincoln and he and his wife were given clothes from their friends on the post. There's no telling what he wore for a while until the next supply train showed up.

As to your comments about my attire....again every bit of this....you, me, GAF is a fantasy. As such I admit it freely and indulge it.

Again in actuality, in the field, U. S. troops "accessorized" and "compromised". Read the full four volumes of "The Horse Soldier" by Randy Steffen. And read all of it and not the parts that support your own fantasy as to how things were. Civililan boots [as I wear], civilian trousers [as I wear], civilian spurs [as I wear], and the civilian; and maybe modern and maybe not, cartridge slide that I wear were all strong possibilities in an officer's attire in the field. And the shirt is civilian as well. So is the hankie on the hat.

My underwear was definitely not period correct though, I'll give you that.

In my opinion, which is worth as much as yours, the only reality lacking in my "costume" is the dirt, sweat, horse salt and sweat, blood from the last campaign, and the booze spilled in the saloon fight which would probably have been acquired in a short amount of time. And I ain't gonna add that stuff to my outfit because I paid too much for it as it is.......

The vest is something that I would have done during that time period and may have been done as well in reality. In the hotter climates wearing a wool coat would have been a pain. So a vest and the rank is quite within the possibillities of reality for the time period.

And you mention the "proper reinforced seat" in the trousers....proper by who's fantasy? Yours? Many men reinforced the seat of their sutler and issue trousers with buckskin. Or they did not reinforce them at all.

As far as improving my look....with plastic surgery and a weight loss I would love to look like Burt Lancaster. But that ain't gonna happen.

As a parting note, no matter how properly attired anyone in the GAF is, as long as they are too fat they are "out of uniform"....and that includes me. And there's a bunch of old guys in the GAF that are very well and properly and nicely attired.....and too fat....and that includes me.

And Sgt. Drydock the shoulderboards will stay....and soon a second pair will be sewn onto a white buckskin jacket. With fake sinew because I am too lazy to make the real thing.

Gentlemen, since I am a Major in the United States Cavalry....with a long term of service....I figure I can do just about what I dang well please....it's my fantasy. And you guys are gonna just "love" my First Sergeant impression......

[Peachey Carnehan]

RR,

I'd suggest reading or borrowing a copy of The Iron Cross, A History, 1813-1957 by Gordon Williamson if you want more research on your EK idea. It's a good book and it's relatively inexpensive if not available at your library- Amazon has it for I think $10-$20. Given the small amount of non-Germans that it was awarded to and to my knowledge their being no precedent of an American being awarded it, I'd say I'd pass on that one.

Regards,
Peachey

[Rancid Roy]

The only thing we in CAS/SASS/GAF "portray" is fantasy.

I am doing just what you are doing and portraying a fantasy.

If you do living history and such then yes it should be as correct as possible and and that which is not should be explained that it is not.

The "Norm" is just what I have stated in my last post. General Crook's entire command, according to the report by Captain King of his command was almost entirely out of standard uniform and met with General Terry's which was in uniform. And Captain King also stated that years before in Apacheria General Crook and his command, all the way down to the enlisted men was usually on campaign in a mixture of civilian and military attire. Many other diarists and reporters of the time period report the same thing. I have read that General Custer's command at the Little Bighorn/Greasy Grass was also mixed in uniform and clothing. It has been reported in many articles of men weariing civilian straw hats on campaign.

So contrary to your comment about:

"It's called Portraying the NORM, Not the exception to the Regs & Orders, as Only a Small percentage got away w/ it."

You are incorrect.

So the norm is either/or and since the GAF and CAS is a fantasy....fantasy is the norm.

The sport of cowboy action shooting started out as a couple of guys in modern clothes shooting old west guns in cobbled up combat scenarios, as reported many times by the men who started SASS. It started as a fantasy and grew into a larger one.

If you portray a figure in fantasy or actual history to the "nth" degree, I'm happy for you. But when you saunter your pompous derriere into someone else's post and pose as an "expert" you can expect to get cut off at the knees.

[ColonelFlashman]

I'll be getting back to you on this, as I wish to make myself PERFECTLY Clear on these subjects, so that there will be No mistaking what I mean. If You'd have just READ what the Others here have Stated about me, You'd not be confused, making indiscrete & libelous statements. I'll be addressing each of your presumtuous statements & assertion's, in detail.

And seen as How this IS an Open Forum, I've the Right to Waltz Into Any topic & make observations & statements based on Intel found in Stephens books, that I own First Edition of, as well as First Hand Intel based on the Military Regs & Orders, the Bios written by those that Actually walked the walk & talked the talk & lived to tell about it. And just because 1/10 of a % is what you are basing what you believe the Norm to be, Does Not make it Fact! What is Fact is what the other 99.9% is what is the Norm worn by those serving while on Post & in the Field, Not your Exceptions. You can not base Your findings Solely on Photos, the the Photogs back then, as now, shot what catches the eye, stands out & that would be military personel not conforming to Regs & Orders, standing out like a sore thumb. Yes, but Crooks & Custers commands are still only that 1/10 of a % & not the Norm, but the Exception.

You really need to READ the Hand Book that S.A.S.S., as the Founders of Cowboy/Western Action Shooting Publishes, because it's Right There In Print about how this sport is to be Portrayed. That it is not Just a Fantasy (Saturday Morning @ the Matinee), but it has a Factual (Re-enactment/Living History) side as well & untill you READ that, are able to digest that fact, that there is Room for both Portrayals here, you'll Not derive the Full benefits from our sport.
And seen as how I was there a year or two after the founding of our sport, you've no leg to stand on to tell me what was the Intentions of the founders of our sport were/are.  My badge # is Life Member 535, boy-o & I shot w/ Tex, R.J. Poteet, Sara Soto, Shotgun Red, The Judge, U.S. Grant, etc. & had rather Long converstions w/ them about our sport & what their visions were.

And if you go back I re-read my statement, you'll see that I stated that it looks as if you are Portraying SILVER SCREEN MILITRAY.

[Dr. Bob]

Rancid Roy,

I am rather new to CAS.  I enjoy the shooting.  I make extreme effort to be authentically dressed in both my civilian and military impressions.  That is my choice and fantasy is not part of my enjoyment.  It obviously is part/all of your enjoyment.  That's OK by me.  I certainly hope that my desire to be as period correct as I can is OK with you.  Many of those who post regularly on this board are more inclined to the authentic persona.  That does not mean that your choice of a fantasy persona is not valid.  Just that many here have a different objective.  Where possible, my uniforms meet the appropriate US Army regulation.  My choice which it do not assume that anyone else needs to emulate.  In GAF there is plenty of room for both types of impression.  To many GAF members historical accuracy is quite important.  Discussions have historically been on accurate portrayal of a specific period and uniform.  That is the mind set that most of the answers & comments came from.  I don't think that anyone was trying to put you down.  Just offering advice from their point of view, which is really different from yours.  I did not understand from your initial post that you were doing a "B Western" impression. 

Not all CAS shooters are SASS members.  The first GAF national musters were put on by an NCOWS posse under NCOWS rules.  Because of the GAF charter allowing "movie/fantasy" clothing it was allowed, even thought it was contrary to the NCOWS bylaws.  The best dressed award has always gone to an authentically dressed soldier.  We are attempting to be a historic military shooting sport with the new battle arms categories, not just a CAS shoot in uniform.  That is still available if that is what you want, but it is not the main thrust of the shooting program. 

I recommend that you read some the recent threads and get a better idea of the general nature of the various GAF members who have responded to you.  The board has been authenticity oriented for a couple of years.  That is why the responses were not geared toward the fantasy impression. 

I certainly do not have a problem with what you want to do.  It is you persona, which is your choice!

YMH&OS,

Capt. Robert H. Dorian
Brv't. LtC., Chief Topographical Engineer
Grand Army of the Frontier
aka Dr. Bob

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks for the word on the Iron Cross Peachey and I agree if I were to portray a true life persona then I'd skip the Iron Cross and may or not not wear it anyhow. I was trying via the internet to research it and got little info. But my Major persona is a fantasy, and in fantasy anything is possible.

Flashman you may have been standing around the SASS shoots longer than me but I don't think you were paying much attention. SASS started as a fantasy and still is a fantasy, it will always be a fantasy. Only a very, very few who particpate are historically/correctly attired and armed. That is the beauty of this sport, anybody can play and be anything they want with in a framework of loosely coded rules.

I was around when the GAF got started on the SASSWire and it has since grown into an offshoot organization that spans the boundaries of both SASS and NCOWS, which is good. When GAF puts on a more formal/historically correct event than yes all particpants should be in proper uniform. When GAF goes to shoot at a SASS event the fantasy lives.....

My little Major persona is a mix of Hollywood and very possible reality, as I said every part of that picture could easily have been the uniform of an officer on campaign, so I am not too far away from the actualities of what was worn.

It is indeeed an open forum and all are invited to attend, which is why I came here. I did my research first, as much as my time allows, and then I came here because I know there are those here who are knowledgeable.

But you were just rude, and condescending not helpful. If it was part of your fantasy "persona" you should let folks now that up front, otherwise you are goin got be seen as.....rude and condescending.

I was the president of a SASS/CAS club for almost three years, I read the SASS handbook a lot. I have talked with Tex and U. S. Grant lot about SASS.

I'm not confused nor libelous....just truthful.

You are making a common mistake many re-enactors and living history aficianados make. Pictures. They only tell a very small part of the history when photography was in its infancy. As such most people who sat for them, or stood up their entire military formation for them, put on their "best" and or wore the trinkets the photographer added [in the case of many civilian photos]. So a large majority of the "photos" of the early and mid 19th century are posed, extra "ornamamented", or not a statement of the facts as to real dress.

Hollywood has added to the misconceptions. When they make a cavalry movie it looks better to have the men all "uniformed" up and not actually wearing what they would have been wearing on campaign, which was often enough, in often enough cases, a mix of military and civilian.

Once again I wish I looked like Burt Lancaster or some such actor....then you'd be correct, I'd be Silver Screen!!

Thanks Dr. Bob, I have been on the GAF a long time and have been cruising this board a long time, just not participating as I had not "moved into" a military persona yet. There are knowledge folks here, there are beginners, and there are pretenders. Their comments speak for their knowledge.

I have all four copies of Steffen's cavalry books and at one point all cavalry men wore a "C" on their buttons, and Dragoons wore a "D". I could not find in the books where the practice was left to only the officer ranks. I came here and made a post to find the answer and got it, and I found it as well deeper into Steffens books. But one person [being very helpful] stated that it was never done [all personnel wearing buttons with a "C"] but it was at one time.

And no, Steffen's books are not the "be all", but I did my research and they are a very good start.

My vest with the rank is a cross between Hollywood and actuality, it could have been done in real times and I did it to ensure the "Major persona" was understandable to the many who I shoot with and do not know the acual uniform situations of the 19th Century. I did not want to go full Hollywood and wear the shirt with rank, I wanted to fall somewhere in between.

I hope the GAF continues to grow and I hope it continues to enjoy both aspects of this military fantasy, actual historical portrayals and....fantasy. I will never go full bore "authenticity" because I don't care to spend the money and I ain't gonna wear wool in the summer!!

If others wish to be authentic down to not bathing regularly I support them....upwind but I think the authenticity is great, a lot of lost info has been unearthed because of the zeal. Just don't be rude about it, is my credo.

Thanks again for all the helpful input gentlemen. Regards, Rancid Roy.

[US Scout]

Gentlemen,

I need to remind everyone that at The Barracks we conduct our discussions in a courteous and respectful manner.  We don't mind a bit of "spirit" to show, but rudeness will not be tolerated.  Please keep those words under control.

US Scout
Brevet Brigadier General
Grand Army of the Frontier
Commanding

[US Scout]

As Dr Bob has pointed out, the GAF was originally founded by SASS members who preferred being a soldier to a cowboy, townsman, lawman or outlaw.  Consequently, because our initial membership was heavily drawn from SASS, we allowed the "Hollywood" look as well as encouraged the "authentic" look in keeping with the SASS rules.  (I caveat "authentic" because for most of us we're putting together a reasonable facimile of period uniforms, not a museum quality reproduction)

Over time we began to count NCOWS, NSSA, reenactors and living historians among our membership - organizations that put greater emphasis on "authentic" attire.  Eventually this led to a general trend within our ranks to wearing more "authentic" rather than "Hollywood" uniforms. 

The GAF still allows both types of uniforms to be worn, but from my perspective of questions posed on this forum, and what I've seen at the Musters (and elsewhere), we have a majority who prefer the "authentic" look.  This can best be seen by the many excellent uniforms being worn at the Musters, as well as posters at the Barracks being asked to provide citations for the information they post, or to provide recommended references for research.

Unfortunately we sometimes have a few who forget that we still allow the "Hollywood" look.  I would remind everyone that John Ford and John Wayne are probably as much responsible for our interest in the frontier Army as are Jerome Greene, Paul Hutton, and Robert Utley - or for that matter Robert Carter, Charles King, George Custer, George Crook, and many others who have written of the Frontier Army.

I will admit that I prefer the "authentic" look - but I also have a "Hollywood" outfit that I sometimes wear to SASS matches because it is much more comfortable than wearing wool in the hot and very humid summers we have in Virginia. 

All said and done, as long as we know and willingly acknowledge the difference between what is considered authentic and/or regulation and what is based on Silver Screen sources, then none of us should have any problem with what a GAF member decides to wear. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Drydock]

There are many wrong assumptions here, and it is well to step back a bit.  Voice tone and inflection cannot be detected on a computer screen.

 But it must be understood, a question was asked about decorations in an historical context.  As such, the answers wiill deal in history.  If it is simply a hollywood portrayal, or perhaps somewhere in the line of "It could have been done, therefore I can do it"  Then why ask?  If the decorations are to be correct, then the uniform beneath them should be correct as well.   Remember too that the original question dealt with medals of Valor, not society medals.  Medals Of Valor would only be worn on a correct dress uniform, not on an expediant mishmash that could perhaps be found in the field.

You cannot have it both ways.  Please make it clear which side of the house you are interested in, and the appropriate folks will be happy to help.  There is no arrogance here, but a desire to get it right.   And you have to be particularly careful with decorations of any type.  They mark a portrayal of the past that concerns many folks who are aware of the history behind those colorful bits of metal and silk, folks who want to make sure its done right, less the meaning of the decoration be somehow diminished. 

I'm a 20 year naval veteran myself.  (85-05)  And I portray a First Sgt. BTW.   

[Charlie Bowdre]

Sgt.
Well said and written .

Dutchie

[Rancid Roy]

Thank you U. S. Scout and Sgt. Drydock.

I have been following the growth of the GAF on this wire since its inception but not particpating in its disscusions as I was not prepared to step into "uniform".

U. S. Scout your are correct in the methods that start people on ther path to history. And Hollywood is responsible for a large portion of that. My favorite war movie of all time is "Bataan". Not historically correct in action, costume, and many other ways but a great, entertaining movie which catapulted me into reading everything I can about that part of WWII, the first months before Guadalcanal. "They Were Expendable" made me fall in love with P.T. boats and their history. "They Died With Their Boots On" began my interest in General Custer. I am by no means a historian but I am a lover of history and these movies and others set me on a path of learning that will never stop. And although I know these movies are either quite "hokey" or deviate from actuality somewhat I still watch them, they are a great source of entertainment.

Thanks also for the admonition about conduct on this forum. I did not cross any lines and neither has Colonel Flashman. We have indulged in a spirited debate and I am happy with my "persona" displayed here and explained it in greater detail because there are those who think they "know it all" but my impression is that they do not. You have nothing to worry as to my conduct now or in the future.

Sgt. Drydock thanks for your input and I do need to explain further. Everyone should look at my "byline" here as Rancid Roy....I have to much fun in life to take much of anything serious. I am a Veteran [no combat] and many of my family/ancestral members were. I have always had one hero.....any Vet. There are pretty much the only people I really respect any more.

Also I respectfully suggest that your assesment of my original question is not correct. I specifically asked about the "fantasy" of old west military, which is what I will do in my membership of GAF and SASS. I know the reality of wearing medals improperly in a true living history or strict re-enacting genre. But I am under the impression GAF has not reached that point in all of its facets.

I have seen whereby this forum and GAF was gravitating towards more historical authenticity. I knew this would happen when it was formed. I had hoped it wouldn't overwhelm the original stated purpose and allow only the "snoots" to take over. I did WWI and WWII re-enacting for a few years and I know enough about the other genres of re-enacting that the "snoots" abound and are embarrassing and boring to listen to. If an organization's stated purpose is actual living history or truly period correct re-enacting than all who particpate must follow the strict rules of dress and conduct. But I am still aware that this is not the case in GAF. And everyone who comes here should respect that.

If GAF calls for a "muster" or shoot whereby whoever is "hosting" or leading it wants "historical accuracy", then make that plainly known and all partipants should abide. If not then Hollywood, historically accurate, or some sort of mix should be allowed as to the GAF guidelines.

I am currently planning a cavalry Major's persona who had served overseas in certain foreign militaries. As such to encourage this impression to the "onlooker" he needed to be wearing medals indicating that service upon the appropriate uniform. If I have my memory correct I have seen the wearing of medals on the full dress uniform and the "undress" uniform such as Pitspitr is wearing in his avatar. I intend to have an "undress uniform". I'm to cheap to buy a full dress, it interferes with the Gun Fund.

The problem with wearing medals in the time period desired is that Germany and the United States only seem to have made valor and not campaign medals, so I brought my question here to "expand the boundaries" of what I had pretty much already decided.

I think the wearing of medals of valor is hugely improper when re-enacting an impression from a time period whereby the Veterans are still living or recently deceased. It is also illiegal in the case of the Medal of Honor. But what about the Indian Wars? And in my case a very large fantasy of a Major who served with the French, British, Germans, and maybe even in China? I am not interested in ME getting to wear a bunch of medals and pass myself off as a person of heroic stature, again look at my Rancid Roy "byline". This Major is also being developed along those lines. I wanted to get both French and German campaign medals of the Franco-Prussian War and concoct a story of how he served both sides and never got caught as a spy by either. But those medals were issued too late for the time period.

I knew that my wearing of shoulder boards on the vest would set off a few comments about "Hollywood" because of it's closeness to Hollywood's wearing of shoulder boards and chevrons on shirts. But I needed something to wear that I could attach rank to so that the "onlooker" could "get" the impression. And I wanted something that was possible [even if remotely so] to actually occur during the time period. There is probably no record of an officer doing what I have done but it is probable and therefore close enough to authentic to satisfy me. The rest of what my picture displays is all documented as to having occurred. So my costume in my picture is actually quite historically correct for the most part, except me....I'm too fat to have been a true officer in any service or "arm"....

Good night gentlemen and God Bless.

RR.