Question about wearing medals [repros] of valor

[Rancid Roy]

I personally have never done anything more "valorous" other than giving my wife an honest answer when she asked me about her pants...........

But........in this fantasy of Old West military would it be "bad form" to wear medals of valor for the time period with your uniform.

For instance I am thinking of a Major of the United States cavalry who has "won"/"earned" the French medal of the Italy Campaign 1859....The Kearny Medal of the Civil War....The British Medal of the Ashanti in 1868...The German Iron Cross of 1870.

In essence this ficticious Major has acquired a lot of "salad dressing" while galavanting around the world.

I do know that in various forms of re-enacting from the Civil War to the World Wars, depending on the "unit" and how its rules go....wearing medals of valor, even in a ficitonal sense is frowned upon.

What do the members think?

[Charlie Bowdre]

Hope this doesn't post twice but the gremlins seem to be on the site this am.

The decision is a personal one and I for one would not criticize anyone who wanted to wear some 'pretties'

Personally I would not wear them. I have had the luck ( good or bad ) to be in the wrong place at the right time and have a few 'gongs' I can wear . But I have them put away for my next big performance

Truth and fantasy have some areas I feel have to be separated .

Just my opinion so please don't beat me up for it .


Thanks
Dutchie

[US Scout]

Roy, it sounds like you're trying to do an American version of the Flashman!

GAF policy on medals primarily applies to the GAF medal, medals awarded at the Musters, and Marksmanship badges since these are the only ones we award.  As a general rule, the medals are only worn on the dress and undress uniforms, not on the field uniforms (or equivilent civilian attire). 

The GAF does not approve wearing of non-GAF awards/medals/badges at GAF events, or when representing the GAF in uniform.  This is primarily because we are a "military" oriented organization and non-military badges, such as the various "law enforcement" badges worn by many shooting groups, looks odd on a uniform.  However, several of our members have converted their "law enforcement" badges to a medal by suspending them from a ribbon and that is accepted.  I wear my SASS badge this way when I'm at SASS events, but I leave it off when I'm at a non-SASS event.

For other medals/badges the GAF permits them to be worn if they are appropriate for the time period being portrayed. For example, the Civil War, Indian War, or Spanish-American War (reproduction) campaign medals weren't awarded until the early 20th century so would be inappropriate on a ca. 1880 uniform.  However, a medal worn by a contemporary veteran's organization, such as the Grand Army of the Republic, might be appropriate.  This also prehibits the wearing of modern medals (though I would certainly make an exception for any GAF member who had been awarded the Medal of Honor, Victoria Cross, or equivilent).

Our general guidance in this regard is that if the medal/badge contributes to the member's persona protrayal, and as long as no one is being misled about the "right" to wear the award, then it is permitted.  In other words, if the medals are no longer being awarded, and it is highly unlikely that any actual recepient of the medal is still alive, then it would be OK to wear it since it could be safely assumed that medal/badge is for decoration and not to mislead the public.

We apply the same guidance to the wearing of the war-time service stripe by those who do an enlisted portrayal.  It would be appropriate to the persona and is therefore authorized. 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Pitspitr]

Roy, it sounds like you're trying to do an American version of the Flashman!

That's what I thought!

I might also add that to the best of my knowledge it is now illegal to buy or sell a  Congressonal Medal of Honor or a copy there of.

[US Scout]

I might also add that to the best of my knowledge it is now illegal to buy or sell a  Congressonal Medal of Honor or a copy there of.

I concur, but I think it just applies to the "modern" Medal of Honor (which is worn around the neck), not the reproductions of the 19th century versions (which is worn on the breast).

That said, I've had quite a few people mistake our GAF medal for the 19th century Medal of Honor - which of course is an excellent opportunity to discuss the GAF.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[St. George]

St. George's Notes IV - Medals...
« on: July 04, 2004, 04:14:18 PM »     

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A large number of folks are portraying Military men as well as Veterans of the Civil War, the Indian Wars and frequently both.
There are even those who portray members of the 1st Volunteer Cavalry - TR's "Rough Riders" - though there certainly seem to be far more "portrayers' than there were "originals" of that organization...

This brings up a point that needs to be made when creating your Impression.

The Wearing of Military Medals...

In essence - you don't get to wear any.

The Army of the pre-1900 time frame had the "Certificate of Merit" - a paper document given solely to Enlisted men and established in 1847, during the War with Mexico and issued until 1905.
The "Medal of Honor" - not the "Congressional Medal of Honor", by the way - was the country's first metallic decoration.

Originally created for the Navy on December 21, 1861, the Army followed with its variant six months later, on July 12, 1862.
Though differing in design and created by two separate Acts of Congress, Army and Navy Medals of Honor are usually referred to as "Medal of Honor" as if they were one decoration.

And this brings up another distinction - there are "Service Medals" and there are "Decorations".
"Service Medals" would be awarded for Campaign Participation, while a "Decoration" would be awarded for a specific act.

Going back - there are two Army Medals of Honor that could possibly be worn by your impression - the 1862-1896 design, with a "flag-styled ribbon" and the 1896-1904 design with a striped ribbon - the difference being the ribbon syle.

After the mass distribution of these medals during the Civil War a Board was held to determine their validity of issue and many were rejected.
More on that if it's warranted...
Read "A Shower of Stars" for an insight.

The various Campaign medals - while "neat" and attractive and more important - available - weren't authorized until well after the turn of the Century.

Army
Civil War Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Indian Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Spanish Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Spanish War Service - Authorized 9 JUL 18
Army of Cuban Occupation - Authorized 28 JUN 15
Army of Puerto Rican Occupation - Authorized 28 JUN 15
Philippine Campaign - Authorized 11 JAN 05
Philippine Congressional - Authorized 29 JUN 06

Navy and Marines
Civil War Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
Spanish Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
Philippine Campaign - Authorized 27 JUN 08
China Relief - Authorized 27 JUN 08(service from 1900 - 1901)

Now this isn't to say that you can't wear something on your uniform - because there are guys out there right now looking at studio portraits of be-uniformed men, bedecked with all manner of finery, and they're getting all worked up.
Slow down, Trooper...
The finery that you see are "Society Medals" - those medals that one would buy (and once in a great while, earn) from the Military Society or Veteran's organization that they happened to belong to later in life.
A lot of those photos are of GAR men.
There were all manner of Veteran's Badges available - from the "Ladder Badge" depicting on bars clasped together by rings - the Company, the numeric designator, the State and the type of unit - "Co. F" - "2d" - "Iowa" - "Vol Cav" - complete with a miniature of a Corps Badge suspended below, or maybe a bullion tassle.
Or perhaps a "Shield" - with the veteran's name above on the scroll and his unit-specific information suspended below.

There could be the traditional "GAR" badge or a more impressive one if you portray an Officer in that organization and as time went on almost every old vet got that chance, as the membership died off.

Then, there would be badges from the "Society Armies" - "The Society Army of the Tennessee" or of the "Cumberland" or "Potomac", or maybe the "Union Veteran's League", and even the "Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States" - an organization of ex-Union officers.

The South had the "United Confederate Veterans" - not as well-developed an organization as the GAR, but surely as powerful in Southern States.

For more - including pictures - see my articles in "North-South Trader's Civil War"- Vol XXII, No. 5, September-October 1995

These were all politically strong veteran's organizations - the fore-runners of our present American Legion and VFW and DAV, and membership was encouraged.
This was also a time of wide-spread Lodge membership and those had their badges that show up in photographs as well.

The point is - when developing your impression of a Military man or of a Veteran, you can do plenty to enhance it without resorting to temptation.
There are large numbers of original GAR/UCV items available that can be used in a lapel or on a watch fob.
There's even a flask that you can find once in awhile and it adds to your "look", and a lot of men carried (and enjoyed) a touch of the creature...

Good Luck!


Scouts Out!

[Deadeye Don]

I dont have problems with persons wearing historically correct medals in this "make believe" world, but I do have problems with people wearing more modern medals.  I know nobody here would ever do that, but I was shocked to see Sportsmans guide selling various more modern military medals.  These are apparently surplus medals they acquired and are selling.  Personally, I find this practice rather repugnant.  Anyways here is a link to see what I am talking about.  Regards. Deadeye.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/search/search.asp?r=Page%3A+%2FDefault.asp+KW+Box&s=SEARCH&a=search&k=medal

[St. George]

 St. George's Notes V... The Issuing of Medals...
« on: July 07, 2004, 03:27:36 PM »     

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In my earlier Notes - I talked about Medals in general, and gave issuance dates.

Here's a little more on the history and idiosyncracies of that process.

Most all of the Campaign and Service Medals cited came about long after a serving soldier had ended his military career, yet he was eligible for one and surely deserved one - so how to get it?

Well, let me tell you...

If the servicemember was by some chance still on Active Duty - and some were - the specific medal was requested through channels, using his Service Record Book as proof, and issued at an appropriate ceremony.

These medals were numbered on their rim (12345) (later-issue - No.12345) and were Government-issued items.

But what about the guy who'd retired or merely got out?

Simple - if he wanted one - he could buy one.

Upon presenting his proof of service to the Philadelphia Mint (often, he did this through the good offices of the Post Office) - he could apply to purchase a mint-struck medal no different from the issued item, save for the rim numbering that now featured the marking "MNo." - for "Mint Number" - thus, his medal would read MNo. 12345.

The issue medals can be researched, but for the most part, the Mint-numbered one's can't, so it's important that you look for any and all other documentation when buying one.

And as to that - they're faked and have been since the '30's, so beware and know your seller.

GAR medals aare numbered as well - indicating an "official" badge, made from captured Confederate cannon.
It used to be an "inspectable item" at a GAR meeting when one of the ranking officers came to call, because the Veteran could buy an un-numbered one a little cheaper from an unlicensed vendor, and they frowned on doing that.

The Government continued to produce those early Campaign and Service Medals until late WWII - for the last surviving vets and for their families.
I've got a Civil War Campaign Medal - boxed - that's from a 40's Contract.
Alas - none are left, having been disposed of in the late '60's.
If a family wants some tangible memento from the Government, they'll get a Certificate - nothing more.

A side note.
During the early stages of WWI as senior men were landing in France, the French thought that there were a number of "Legion d Honneur" recipients amongst the newly-arriving Americans.
The French decoration features a Red ribbon, with Red edges - just like our Indian War Medal ribbon did...
We added two Black vertical stripes to our medal to avoid embarrassment and confusion, but if you happen to ever see a Government-issue, Indian Campaign medal with an all-Red ribbon - look reverently - it's one of the earliest ones...

If you do happen to want to see one - coupled with a Spanish Campaign with a Silver Gallantry Star on its first-pattern ribbon as well, and numbered to B Company's First Sergeant of the 10th Cavalry - more and more, it looks like a display's in order.

Scouts Out!

[Pitspitr]

I concur, but I think it just applies to the "modern" Medal of Honor (which is worn around the neck), not the reproductions of the 19th century versions (which is worn on the breast).

Several years ago Dixie Gun Works sold a reproduction of the CW CMH and my boss at Fort Hartsuff bought (at least) one of them, since 4 men who served or worked at Ft. Hartsuff during it's "active" life were awarded the CMH. Last year he misplaced it for a while and was really paniced because, he said, he couldn't legally buy another one as a relatively new (since the time Dixie was selling them) law had been passed making it illegal to reproduce or sell ANY copy of the CMH including obsolete. Maybe he was mistaken, but this was the source I was using for my comments

[Dr. Bob]

Col. Pitspitr,

I believe that you are correct.  I am a member of the Kansas City Military Collectors Club and have heard the same info several times from members and speakers at our meetings.

[Rancid Roy]

Thanks for the input so far.

Dutchie you are dead on. No one should ever wear medals they did not earn and many who did "stash" them away as the medals are not what they were "there" for. Thanks. And thanks for your service.

Somebody educate me who the "Flashman" was?

Deadeye Don almost all medals of many countires can be bought new except [in the case of the U. S.] the Medal of Honor and perhaps the Navy Cross and those of that "level".

The medals I have mentioned above were issued during "our" time period [if my research is correct] and a couple would be "Campaign" and not "Valor". The Kearny Medal was the "precursor" to the Medal of Honor and awarded for bravery and the Iron Cross was also for valor as were versions awarded for meritorious duties as well.

I am also considering the campaign medals from both Germany and France for the Franco-Prussian War, worn by the same man.....my "Major" persona is a bit of a cad/sneak/tongue-in-cheek sort of a thing.

I am about to "step" out in my new extra persona as a Major of the United States Cavalry and am looking to add a little "salad dressing" without being improper or disrespectful.

I was a Gyrene as was my Dad and currently my brother.

On the subject of improper conduct reference "real" Vets read "Stolen Valor" you can find it online.

Thanks again for the input and please add more if necessary.

[Pitspitr]

Somebody educate me who the "Flashman" was?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman

[Hill Beachy]

Somebody educate me who the "Flashman" was?

In addition to Pitspitr's answer, Colonel Sir Harry Flashman VC was among the earliest and most colorful members of The old CAS-L -- about as far back as '96 or so.  That was well before the present website existed.  Heck, for all I know he may have been a member of the CAS-L when it was still being delivered by carrier-pigeon!   

He is knowledgeable and opinionated, and almost always is "in character" which you should bear in mind should you ever have the opportunity to interact with him.  Or perhaps he just "is" a character!   

[US Scout]

The Stolen Valor Law of 2005 was intended to eliminate the sale of the Medal of Honor and the Distinquished Service/Navy/Air Force Cross, primarily because many who bought them would then wear and/or display them as their own award.  It doesn't cover (yet) anyone from claiming they won any of these awards, but I expect that loophole will eventually be covered.

Strictly speaking, as the law is written, wearing any US military decoration that wasn't earned, even if it is a replica of a medal no longer awarded, is grounds for prosecution.  I don't think the law was intended for those who dress up in uniforms of 100 years ago, but I wouldn't want to test that interpretation against some lawyer in a courtroom.  They probably wouldn't see the logic in the argument.

This doesn't impact on GAF policy since our medals are our own design, not those of the US or foreign militaries, and we don't approve of wearing modern military medals on our uniforms (which are the medals the Stolen Valor Act was intended to cover).  

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[US Scout]

In addition to Pitspitr's answer, Colonel Sir Harry Flashman VC was among the earliest and most colorful members of The old CAS-L -- about as far back as '96 or so.  That was well before the present website existed.  Heck, for all I know he may have been a member of the CAS-L when it was still being delivered by carrier-pigeon!   

He is knowledgeable and opinionated, and almost always is "in character" which you should bear in mind should you ever have the opportunity to interact with him.  Or perhaps he just "is" a character!   

Colonel Flashman is also a member of the GAF. 

I count him as a good friend and he is just as Hill Beachy describes.  He is "colorful" and a "character" but extremely knowledgeable about a number of topics.  He can come on a bit strong for some however, especially if you haven't come into contact with him before.

US Scout
Bvt Brig Gen

[Dr. Bob]

Gad man, he has his reputation to maintain!  Cheerio old chap! Ta!

[ColonelFlashman]

Hmmmm, being descriped as "A Colourfull Character, Knowledgeable & Good Friend" is one of the nicest things ever stated about me, thank'ee!
In case Anyone's interested, one is able to view an in depth History of my Adventures around the world, as well as View the Ribands I wear on my Uniforms.
" SIR HARRY FLASHMAN'S MEMOIRS"
http://www.geocities.com/Col_Flashman/

[Drydock]

I would also highly recomend the "Flashman" series of historical fiction,  to be found at your local bookstore or library.  Great fun, and oddly informative, as is the Flashman himself . . .   

[ColonelFlashman]

For those that wish to do so, purchase the Memoirs that is, all they have to do is follow the links @ the bottom on each of the pages of the individual adventures on my site, as those links take you directly to Amazon.com

[St. George]

Take another look at the dates of issuance.

The U.S. Campaign medals you refer to simply did not exist during the era, but came about well into the twentieth century.

The only decoration having an official status during the Civil War was the Medal of Honor.

However, a number of unofficial unit decorations were established by unit commanders and awarded to members of their commands during the war.

Among these are:

Kearny Cross (1862)/Kearny Medal (1863) - (1st Division, 3d Army Corps)
Ely Medal - (23rd Pennsylvania Infantry Regiment)
Gillmore Medal - (Tenth Army Corps)
17th Corps Medal of Honor
Butler Medal - (25th Army Corps)

These were all designed, created and manufactured privately, and had limited issue.

If you want 'flash' - then look to the various 'Society' medals of the era, as many photographs depict them in a studio setting.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!