Let's Start a List: Chaparral and Uberti Production Problems

[swbohler]

Grizzly,

Man, are you good!  The bottom lip on hte bolt face is practically non-existent.  I hope it is as simple as that!  Thanks a load!!!

[swbohler]

Well, I called and got a replacement bolt.  But I was having a devil of a time finding a gunsmith to work on the gun.  Finally found one in the area but he was unfamiliar with this type of gun (has been in the business only a year or so -- retired Air Force guy).  So he wanted to do some reading and studying before working on my Chaparral.  He finished it up a week ago Saturday; I picked it up Monday of last week.  He had not fired it -- didn't want to use my expensive bullets, he said.  So, Friday (I am a pastor and Friday is my one day off each week) I went out to shoot.  As soon as I step out of my truck at the range, the sheriff's department pulls up and asks if I am a pastor.  I say yes; he says my wife called them to find me as there has been an accident and one of my parishioners has died.  The family needs me right away (the lady was struck by a semi-truck as she crossed the street walking to work!).  I have been tied up with that ever since.  The funeral is this afternoon.  I have another parishioner dying of cancer; he could go any day now.  I am hoping that I can get out this Friday.  I really want to know if the work was successful.  I am almost $1000 into this gun, have had it for almost 3 months, and still can't shoot!

[Grizzly Adams]

Well, I called and got a replacement bolt.  But I was having a devil of a time finding a gunsmith to work on the gun.  Finally found one in the area but he was unfamiliar with this type of gun (has been in the business only a year or so -- retired Air Force guy).  So he wanted to do some reading and studying before working on my Chaparral.  He finished it up a week ago Saturday; I picked it up Monday of last week.  He had not fired it -- didn't want to use my expensive bullets, he said.  So, Friday (I am a pastor and Friday is my one day off each week) I went out to shoot.  As soon as I step out of my truck at the range, the sheriff's department pulls up and asks if I am a pastor.  I say yes; he says my wife called them to find me as there has been an accident and one of my parishioners has died.  The family needs me right away (the lady was struck by a semi-truck as she crossed the street walking to work!).  I have been tied up with that ever since.  The funeral is this afternoon.  I have another parishioner dying of cancer; he could go any day now.  I am hoping that I can get out this Friday.  I really want to know if the work was successful.  I am almost $1000 into this gun, have had it for almost 3 months, and still can't shoot!

My father was a pastor, and I know the dedication it takes - it's a vocation with no schedule.   Hope things will allow you an afternoon to shot your 76.  God bless you and the ministry you provide to folks.

[Cross-stixs]

 Hi Guys 

Back for the void.  don't know where to post this so I will put it here.
I had to cancel my uberti  as it still had not come in and was informed could be another year or more.
But there is a guy who is selling Chaparrals in Canada.  i asked if he would hand pick one of me.
Checking for cartridge lip firing pin hole so on. yes he would and i have a month to return it to him.
Now the Chaparral is $600 cheaper than the Uberti so can use that for any tweaking i mite wont or need to do

So am I nuts or what

Neil. 

[Grizzly Adams]

Hi Guys 

Back for the void.  don't know where to post this so I will put it here.
I had to cancel my uberti  as it still had not come in and was informed could be another year or more.
But there is a guy who is selling Chaparrals in Canada.  i asked if he would hand pick one of me.
Checking for cartridge lip firing pin hole so on. yes he would and i have a month to return it to him.
Now the Chaparral is $600 cheaper than the Uberti so can use that for any tweaking i mite wont or need to do

So am I nuts or what

Neil. 

Good luck, Neil.  At least is sounds like your dealing with a fella that will understand if you need to send it back.  The good news is that Chappies do seem to have good barrels and most shoot very well.  

This is the first report I have heard of a supply shortage with the Uberti 76.  Are you in Canada?

[Cross-stixs]

Hi  Griz

Yes I live in B.C.  all the dealers i found had the same story. only one importer in Canada and at least a one year waiting list.
On top of the year i have all ready waited.

O well at least the Chapps. have made it here

[Icebox Bob]

Hello the mountains, 
From over here in the flatland, 

There seems to be two Chaparral suppliers here in Canada.  Marstar http://www.marstar.ca/gf-Chaparral/index.shtm and Doc Rowlands if you want a NWMP carbine http://www.oldwestguns.ca/products/category.php?id_category=71 .  I purchased my NWMP carbine from south of the medicine line before these options were available (at the same time as Rattlesnake Jack and Sir Charles deMoutonBlack) so I haven't dealt with either of them on this.  Now as to what they they have in stock......... that is another matter.

Cheers
Icebox

[Cross-stixs]

HI  Icebox

Thanks  it was  Marstar  i was talking to and the rifle is in stock don't know about the NWMP Carbine.

I have not talked to Doc Rowland so don't know what he has.  i was after a rifle but the more i look at the NWMP Carbine

I am waffling.

Thanks
Neil                   P.S.  Ma & Pa  used to be flatlanders

[swbohler]

Well, I finally got to take out my Chaparral 1876 yesterday.  Took the dogs for a long walk through the woods, then over to the Sportsmen's Park to shoot.  First round misfired, then fired after I levered it out and tried it again.  Same with the second.  But then the next 4 had no problems.  Then the rain came and my day was done.  So, I am hopeful but not completely convinced that my problems have been solved.  I will say this: when it shoots, this gun does a nice job -- better than I usually do!

[RHSJR]

If your fired case looks like the one on the left instead of looking like the one on the right, send the rifle back to Chaparral

My Cimarron 1876 Uberti 45-75 exhibits this same problem. The shoulder in the chamber is .100 to deep. As of today the issue is Cimarron will not fix it, stating that the chamber is within spec. In all my years of collecting, shooting and gun work since the late 1960s I have never seen such a chamber like this that can be stated as in spec. This condition is unsafe because the chamber is so sharp where the shoulder meets the neck as to almost cut the neck off the fired case. I will have to fix this at my own expense and unfortunately cannot recommend the 45-75 Cimarron Uberti 1876 to any potential buyer until they rectify this issue and fix the defective rifles already sold.

One additional note: Instead of fixing the faulty chamber CH4D now makes reloading dies especially for the Cimarron Uberti 1876. I do not think this is a very professional way of doing business because when I purchased my 1876 in July 2007, the dies were not available nor was any mention of the use of a different chamber from original Winchesters. So instead of fixing the faulty chambers they have a die set made to accommodate it instead.

[Icebox Bob]

Here are a pair of pictures of older 45/75 cartridges for reference.

[Grizzly Adams]

My Cimarron 1876 Uberti 45-75 exhibits this same problem. The shoulder in the chamber is .100 to deep. As of today the issue is Cimarron will not fix it, stating that the chamber is within spec. In all my years of collecting, shooting and gun work since the late 1960s I have never seen such a chamber like this that can be stated as in spec. This condition is unsafe because the chamber is so sharp where the shoulder meets the neck as to almost cut the neck off the fired case. I will have to fix this at my own expense and unfortunately cannot recommend the 45-75 Cimarron Uberti 1876 to any potential buyer until they rectify this issue and fix the defective rifles already sold.

One additional note: Instead of fixing the faulty chamber CH4D now makes reloading dies especially for the Cimarron Uberti 1876. I do not think this is a very professional way of doing business because when I purchased my 1876 in July 2007, the dies were not available nor was any mention of the use of a different chamber from original Winchesters. So instead of fixing the faulty chambers they have a die set made to accommodate it instead.

I looked into this situation, and according to CH4D, there IS difference between the chamber on the Uberti and the Wnchester 1876.  I am awaiting further information in regards to the specifics.  In brief, the dies for the original 45-75 are based on the 1910 factory drawings.  The Uberti chamber is apparently based on a CIP spec.  No sure what that is exactly, but it seems to be European.  I am still digging for more information.  Will post more when I know more.   

In any case, if anyone is having trouble with factory or reloads chambering in their Uberti, then CH4D has the Uberti spec dies.  Another solution would be to neck size when reloading.  This may also apply to the Chaparral version.

[RedBaron]

Good luck with Mike Harvey and Cimarron Arms.  If there is any problem with their products , the problem is you. After having the accuracy problems with my Cimarron 76, and going through all the bulls..t  with Harvey, my dealer ate the Cimarron and replaced my 76 with a Uberti-76 straight from Stoeger.  I know they are all Uberti's whether they are Taylors, Cimarron or Stoeger. The Stoeger -Uberti 76 has performed exceedingly well.  Mike Harvey-Cimarron is only interested in SELLING you the firearm, not BACKING it.  My dealer will not deal with Harvey-Cimarron under any circumstances, and when specifically asked to order a Cimarron fiream, has refused.  But, he will gladly order from Stoeger or Taylors.

[Jbar4Ranch]

On my first Chaparral, a .40-60, the hammer would catch in the half cock notch if the trigger were squeezed instead of jerked, the side plates were too short to reach their corresponding dovetails in the frame and one of them was bowed out in the middle, head space was such that most rounds required two or more hammer strikes to set 'em off, and the thing was horribly inaccurate - I tried eight different bullet weights/styles, both cast and jacketed, as well as a dozen smokeless powders and black powder, and still the bullets were tumbling completely sideways at the the fifteen yard line. The bore slugged .406" & cast bullets were appropriately sized. For jacketed bullets, I used .410" .41 mag bullets swaged down to .406". Fifty yard "groups" were in excess of eight feet with all combinations! After a few emails back & forth to Nick, the rifle was eventually replaced with a .45-75 at my request. Rifle #2 had a whole host of other fun & entertaining problems; cartridges wouldn't extract, the extractor groove in the barrel was so far off, the extractor hit the edge of it when the bolt closed, ill-fitting side plates, ridiculously rough bore, and accuracy only marginally better than rifle #1. It, too, was returned and replaced yet again with another .45-75. Rifle #3 is workable, and even won me 2nd place at the Montana State CAS Championship long range side match this year, with 7/10 hits on steel plates out to 425 yards. (Two of my three misses were on that tiny 425 yard plate, but I nailed it once anyway.)

[john boy]

Based on the age of the last post (Nov 2008)... maybe 2 things have happened:
1.  Folks are not buying and shooting many '76 replicas much anymore
2.  Quality Control on the replicas has improved

[Slowhand Bob]

An interesting observation John Boy, I hope more of number two is the correct answer but lots of fokes seem to have shifted their resources to ARs and such since that date, indicating number one might be the right answer.  I want one of the Uberti rifles real bad but will wait ever how long it takes for them to get it right.  I do find the opinions on Cimmaron to be disturbing as they used to really try to make the customer happy.

[Silver_Rings]

I got a 28" 45-60 for $720 shipped.  Finally got brass Monday and took it out yesterday.  The rifle functioned and shot fine.  The rear sight leaves a lot to be desired but my eye also no longer can focus on both sights and the target so a peep sight is in the plans. 

The finish could be smoother but for the money I'm happy.

SR

[TCRken]

Gents

I'm a newbie to the forum though have been shooting, reloading and collecting many decades now.   My birthday is in a few days and my bride of many years said I could have a new rifle as her birthday present.  So I was all set to buy a replica of the '76 Winchester 45-60 and started looking for advice.  After reading through these and some other forum posts I'm not sure I want to get one anymore given the many issues you've all raised.

Still, I thought I'd ask if recent experience with recent manufactured rifles would fare better?   I'm right on the edge of retirement and pension income so I don't want to get into buying the rifle twice by fixing what a manufacturer should do.

So, am I better to go with a Uberti?  Are there any indications that above say serial # xxxx(?) the issues have been fixed?  I would use my surplus 45-70 brass with a trim die and would like to use some of the 8Lb can of SR4759 along with some Hornady 300 gr and cast 375 gr.  I've seen some mentions on 45-70 rims being to thick for headspacing and putting stress on the toggle bolt.  My brass is Remington and have seen some suggestions that Starline brass was a better match... any truth to that?

The rifle would be just for fun and maybe a try on a mulie.

As you can see from my handle, I'm a TCR collector and have a number of barrels in oboslete calibers and forming brass, so I'm not entirely new in loading obsolete calibers.

Appreciate any advice.

[shieldsmt]

TCRken,
Just a few observations, and some tried and true advice to ponder.  I wanted a '76 for years.  Been to many gun shows and gun shops through out the west and handled quite a few Chaparrals and a few Ubertis - as well as originals.  The Ubertis were decent, the Chapparals were rough.  Again, just my experience.  Then the calibers.  I reload extensively, but as I'm sure you know it'll be a considerable expense to get set up.  Then, the deal breaker for me was the weight.  This beautiful design is a real log to tote around.  I don't shoot matches, my main passion is hunting.  After much deliberation and research and hand wringing I picked up a really nice new Uberti '73, straight stock, cresent butt, 24" oct. barrel in 44WCF (44-40).  This gun is not light, but very manageable.  Last year we took two antelope, a huge mulie and a late season big whitetail buck with winchester brass loaded w/ GOEX 3F and soft 209 gr. flat nose SPG lubed bullets.  All shots over 130 yds, all completely penentrated the boiler room and kept going out the other side.  All down within a few yards.  44-40 is easy to load, cheap components, accurate.  It is also deadly.  I'm really glad I went w/ the '73 now.  If you really want a '76, go for it, they certainly are a neat gun with great history behind them, but if you are feeling you need the power of the 45-60 or 45-75 (or the 50-95 cannon round!) for deer, you really don't.  Don't know where you live, assuming the west since you mentioned mulies, but if you are going to go after elk too, that's a different story.
Hope this little bit of insight from actual experience helps.  Good luck!
shieldsmt

[ndnchf]

FWIW - I biought an Uberti in .50-95 last November from Taylors & Co.  I went to their shop and picked out the one I wanted.  Actually they all looked fine, so it was hard to choose.  Now that I've had it 9+ months and shot 300-400 rounds through it I can say that it is flawless and I couldn't be happier.  Beautiful rifle, smooth action, nice trigger pull, cycles, fires and ejects perfectly.

My advice is to buy the best you can afford from a reputable dealer.  Taylors folks are top notch and go the extra mile to see that you are satisfied.

BTW, what is a TCR I'm guessin' it doesn't shoot black powder and lead bullets or I'd a heard about it