Which one is closer?

RRio · December 01, 2007, 11:47:17 AM

I compiled this chart a couple years ago, using the dimensions listed in Jerry Kuhnhausen's "The Colt Single Action Revolvers - A Shop Manual, Volumes 1 & 2".

After compiling the chart, I had access to a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) and charted the same dimensions of my USFA SAA, serial number 22XXX (totally USA made). I also made up the same type chart for the USFA, but somewhere in the process of transfering files to my new PC, the USFA chart was deleted (or lost ??). Anyhow, I do remember that all of the USFAs dimensions were well within the Colt's dimensions listed in Jerry's book.

As you can see, Ubertis are pretty close, but in my comparsion, the USFAs are dead on.

Doc Sunrise · December 01, 2007, 05:35:34 PM

I never had the data to back me up, and now I feel very good about boasting how USFA is the best SAA out there! Not only in spec measurements, but in workmanship and quality in all areas. Thanks for the info.

sharps50/70 · December 02, 2007, 09:09:54 AM

A friend of mine has a 1st generation Colt in 44/40. The cylinder had some serious pits in it and my friend decided to get a new cylinder. He purchased one from USFA and it just dropped right into the old Colt. Now, that's hard to beat.

Rich

Fox Creek Kid · December 02, 2007, 04:47:13 PM

I was told by Donelly(?) at USFA that their cylinders are 0.020 larger than original 1st gen. Colts.

RRio · December 02, 2007, 07:23:25 PM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on December 02, 2007, 04:47:13 PM
I was told by Donelly(?) at USFA that their cylinders are 0.020 larger than original 1st gen. Colts.

I've heard that also. For extra strength. Frame dimensions are the same.

North Bender · December 03, 2007, 01:20:33 PM

Rawhide, I've read the threads where people post that the USFA is a "copy of a Uberti". The same person usually adds that USFA parts are made in Italy. There is only one forum I know of where poeple write such things, and that stuff gets pretty tiring.

River Jordan · December 03, 2007, 11:51:41 PM

The early USFA revolvers were made in Italy and finished here but not any more.

RRio · December 04, 2007, 01:49:58 AM

Quote from: North Bender on December 03, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
Rawhide, I've read the threads where people post that the USFA is a "copy of a Uberti". The same person usually adds that USFA parts are made in Italy. There is only one forum I know of where poeple write such things, and that stuff gets pretty tiring.

Unfortunately, this sport does have more than it's share of self-proclaimed "experts". I 've got to the point, that instead of my proving it to them, I tell them to prove it to me. And when I say prove it, I don't mean what someone has told them.

I know the forum you are talking about, and I quit going there almost a year ago. Just too much crap!

Quote from: River Jordan on December 03, 2007, 11:51:41 PM
The early USFA revolvers were made in Italy and finished here but not any more.

They have been totally made in the good ol' USA for, I'm thinking, 5 or 6 years now. Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody.

Doc Sunrise · December 04, 2007, 04:11:25 AM

I took a tour of the factory this summer with Banjoman, and I can guarantee you that USFA firearms are 100% American made. The production floor is a technical wonder mixed with with its skilled crafstmen that take computer made parts to the next level with proper filing and hand fitting. It was something to see how blocks of steel were turned into frames and all of the other parts like cylinders, hands, grip straps, cylinder pins, bushings, and the most important guy in the place making all the tiny stuff like screws. I saw how the differnt barrel lenghts are figured out and fitted. I saw where the grips were made and its pile of walnut scraps and rubber or plastic shavings. I got to see the polishers and fitters that take extremely precise looking parts and then do careful hand work to perform final fitting and then where the finishing tanks do there thing. My son got to talk to the engineer who was working on design on his computer, showing how the computer and the engineer figure certain angles to create the right curves in certain parts. We got to see finished products getting ready for shipment. It was all right there in Conn. USA. USFA firearms are 100% American made, period...

Beans · December 04, 2007, 08:38:01 AM

QuoteI took a tour of the factory this summer with Banjoman, and I can guarantee you that USFA firearms are 100% American made. The production floor is a technical wonder mixed with with its skilled crafstmen that take computer made parts to the next level with proper filing and hand fitting. It was something to see how blocks of steel were turned into frames and all of the other parts like cylinders, hands, grip straps, cylinder pins, bushings, and the most important guy in the place making all the tiny stuff like screws. I saw how the differnt barrel lenghts are figured out and fitted. I saw where the grips were made and its pile of walnut scraps and rubber or plastic shavings. I got to see the polishers and fitters that take extremely precise looking parts and then do careful hand work to perform final fitting and then where the finishing tanks do there thing. My son got to talk to the engineer who was working on design on his computer, showing how the computer and the engineer figure certain angles to create the right curves in certain parts. We got to see finished products getting ready for shipment. It was all right there in Conn. USA. USFA firearms are 100% American made, period...

I took the same tour in 2005.

QuoteIt was all right there in Conn. USA. USFA firearms are 100% American made, period

No question about it.

Fox Creek Kid · December 08, 2007, 02:44:31 PM

SUPERB thread, Rawhide Rio!!!

The only question now is at what point (serial #) did USFA switch from Uberti frames and/or specs to those of the Colt? $:-\$ I say this as I'm sure there are many here who see a used one now & then but want the "improved" model & not the Italian spec'd gun. Capish?

Virginia Gentleman · January 02, 2008, 09:21:46 AM

Usually, I have found that Coltaholics who are frustrated by the fact that USFA is doing a better job than they ever did in their old neighborhood spread the "Still made with Uberti parts" myth. Even so, the USPFA Uberti parts guns were so well fit and finished, they looked light years better than 3rd generation Colts then or now. They also shot better than Colts by a healthy margin. I have some Uberti Cimarrons that look and shoot better than 3rd generation Colts, so I am at a loss for what their point is? The USFAs made today are probably the best SAA ever made with modern materials and 19th century finishing standards.

Doc Sunrise · January 03, 2008, 06:43:01 AM

People are just torqued because since the 50's Colt has been out-schooled in Marketing and Research & Development of sixguns. The maker of the greatest sixgun of all time should have at least seen or helped develop Cowboy Shooting and all that is attached with the Cowboy Way. They didn't just miss the Boat, they are standing on the wrong shore. Or in Cowboy terms, "All hat, no cattle".

Virginia Gentleman · January 03, 2008, 10:28:24 AM

Doc:

What is more revealing is when a Coltaholic does come over to the USFA side, they will often times privately admit they were wrong. I know one guy who ended up selling all of his 3rd generations and is now putting together a nice USFA "set" with the 3 different barrel lengths and both types of frames with pre-war finishes. He is going to end up having 2 extra guns out of it since he sold the Colts. I too am amazed at how out of touch Colt is with their market and somehow I doubt they will be around in 2073 for the 200th anniversary edition of the Colt SAA.

Deadeye Don · January 03, 2008, 01:43:49 PM

Quote from: Virginia Gentleman on January 03, 2008, 10:28:24 AM
Doc:

What is more revealing is when a Coltaholic does come over to the USFA side, they will often times privately admit they were wrong. I know one guy who ended up selling all of his 3rd generations and is now putting together a nice USFA "set" with the 3 different barrel lengths and both types of frames with pre-war finishes. He is going to end up having 2 extra guns out of it since he sold the Colts. I too am amazed at how out of touch Colt is with their market and somehow I doubt they will be around in 2073 for the 200th anniversary edition of the Colt SAA.

Hell neither will most of us.

RRio · January 03, 2008, 01:47:50 PM

I think the "splintering" of Colt Industries is the culprit. They accumulated several business over the years, some not even firearms related (Holly carburetors come to mind). Then, alot of those where sold off.
Even today, Colt Firearms are splintered in to Military/LE and Civilian. Very little attention is given to Civilian, just enough to keep it afloat. It would not surprise me if the Civilian firearms division is not even around 10 years from now. A lot of people think manual machining is the best, and CNC/EDM machining is bad, but in this day and age, if you want to stay competitive in the market, you HAVE to utilize that type of equipment. Actually IMHO as a machinist of 30 years, CNC machining is MORE precise, especially on contours. A 12 -18 month TAT is not productive to customer satisfaction.

Virginia Gentleman · January 03, 2008, 02:56:13 PM

I will mostlike have had a fight with a high temperature jet engine in a crematorium and will have my ashes spread around some palm trees by then. I'd be 108 years old if I did make it and who knows, maybe they will have and "atomic heart" by then.

Seriously though, I forsee Colt folding the civilian part of their operation before 2020 as the will to have a good market presence isn't there UNLIKE USFA that has worked hard to be visible.