Which is the better way to go?? Cartridge conversion or C/B drop-in cylinders

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Not to steal this thread, but...

Pettifogger, a fix has been done.  I thought I had figured it out about 4 or 5 years ago when I proposed it, and then found that some gunsmiths were already doing it.  Basically, you make a bushing like Colt has and drill your '58  cylinder to fit it.  Also, the frame has to be relieved to accept the cylinder.

That's the way I   figured was my ticket to fame and fortune - only to find that it was already done.

I hope your idea works out better for you.

By the way, MY OWN '58 fix never got past the planning stage due to a lack of machine tools ... and $$$. 

[Pettifogger]

Yep, been putting bushings in Colts for a while.  Never really liked Remingtons.  But, decided to get one and trick it out and see how well it will hold up.  It is stripped down to the bare frame getting ready for some cutting.  The barrel is out so it will be shortened and the sight and lever latch refitted.  Looks like it will be fun for the next few days (or when I can get to it).

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Yep, been putting bushings in Colts for a while.  Never really liked Remingtons.  But, decided to get one and trick it out and see how well it will hold up.  It is stripped down to the bare frame getting ready for some cutting.  The barrel is out so it will be shortened and the sight and lever latch refitted.  Looks like it will be fun for the next few days (or when I can get to it).

Can you post a picture/pictures when you're done?  I would have done mine if I knew anyone with a lathe back when I GOT the idea.  Sounds like a great project.  I'd like to see an original to see how THEY handled it ... if they did.  As you know, we CAS shooters probably shoot HUNDREDS, perhaps THOUSANDS more rounds than most did "back in the day."  Maybe the problem hardly ever surfaced.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again Boys

I'm pretty sure my favorite gunsmith, Happy Trails at the Smith Shop, is doing such a modification to Remington 1858s. I just ain't gotten around to bringing mine to him. But for somebody buying stock guns, it is something to consider. Not everybody wants to have to have special smithing done to a gun that don't cost much in the first place.

[Eagle Eyes Jefferson]

Guys, Thanks for all the info. Once again you all have proven the story to be true. If you need to know something don't be afraid to ask. Each of you has brought out information that I had not considered.

Steel Horse-  I'm in Smithfield, Va. I have been emailing or pming(sounds kinda kinky don't it!!!) with Arcey. It's his group the Pungo Posse that I will be observing as soon as my schedule will permit. I'm looking forward to actually being at a shoot and able to talk to the shooters to get their opinions of the various makes and models of guns. Indiana is quite a drive for me at this point. Have driven through though on an investigation across the line in Illinois back in the early 90's. (1990's that is)

I'm thinking that I should start out with something I'm familiar with, catridge guns and leave Cap and Ball for future fun events, not for CAS at the moment. Not ruling it out altogether just puttin it on the back burner. Cost and quality/reliability will be the deciding factors for me. I think I have a sxs shotgun that I can use to get started. Not external hammers but it's a starter. The rifle will be the first purchase until I can see what other shooters have to say. I'm kinda picky about my pistols. I guess it's a old cop thing. Anyway, no hurry. Got to observe one or two shoots first and do some more research.

Thanks again for all the help and safe shootin',

EEJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Stick with Arcey - he won't steer ya wrong!

About ANY double is OK for SASS, and the only doubles not OK for NCOWS are the single trigger ones - but THAT may change: I heard a rumor that someone did some research and found that there just might have been a line of single trigger doubles available out West back then!

If that double is hammered ... the gun, NOT the shooter ... you're in like Flint!

Take your time with the pistols - it'll save ya money in the long run.  Those C&B guns have been around a LONG time and they aren't going away any time soon ... no matter what the antis say!

[Arcey]

Stick with Arcey - he won't steer ya wrong!

Dag nabbit, Steel Hoss! Now I'll screw 'im all up........

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Dag nabbit, Steel Hoss! Now I'll screw 'im all up........

Yeah...right! 

Also, Arcey - steer him toward the BOLD site; seein' as you 2 got that in common, too.

[Eagle Eyes Jefferson]

Already been there Steel Horse. That's where I ran up with Arcey in the first place. We actually have met before through work and then I recognized the name here and the rest is history. Yeah, I will take my time with the pistols. Like you said they ain't going nowhere. So far the Jan. shoot looks like a winner as long as Mr Murphy's Law doesn't interfere. I might even go early and get some ham biscuits from the Va. Diner Restaurant and share with Arcey while we set up targets and such. Sounds like a plan to me!!

EEJ

[Pettifogger]

Let's see if these pictures come out.  Should be photos of the unmodified 58, and then photos of the 58 after the frame was milled and a bushing put in the cylinder.  I'm not a machinist, so I'm slow but had fun.  Took a goodly part of the day.  Next is drilling the frame (before the barrel is put back in) for a coil and plunger hand spring.  Then other mods I think of as I put it back together.

(Looks like posting the photos worked.  Click on the photos for a bigger view.)

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Great Pics, P-fogger!  Thanks for postin' them!

Besides the hand mod, what else ya gonna do?  Are you planning to enlarge the opening by the nipples?  I did mine with a Dremel and I can now use any capper I've tried.

[Dr. Bob]

SHB,

The Judge showed documentation and the Congress approved single triggers, July, 06 IIRC.   I wuz there!   All I can afford these days is to pay attention, and so I did.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Dr. Bob - what can I say?  It was a real strong rumor I heard!

OK ... single trigger shotguns are OK.  Good!  I've only fired one and it was WAAAAAAAAAY cool.  'Course it would've cost me a couple months pay, too.  It was one of those fancy Browning O&Us of an acquaintance.   Any history nuts know when the first Over & Under shotguns came out and who made 'em?

Sorry - didn't mean to get off track.  I'm really good at that! 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

O/U shotguns have been around for a long, long time. There were flintlock and cap lock O/U shotguns. Some had multiple locks. I saw one once with one lock and the two barrels rotated for the second shot, like a giant peppre box. I'm pretty sure the British were making some O/U shotguns for cartridges around the turn of the Century, but the main drawback was the the mechanisms were very tall and not very practical, plus they cost a huge amount of money.

John M Browning was working on the design for his Superposed shotgun when he died on November 26, 1926 of heart failure. All rise and remove their hats please. The Browning Company introduced the Superposed model in 1928. Most agree that the Superposed was the first practical O/U shotgun that ordinary shooters could afford.

[Pettifogger]

OK, for those following the rebuild of the 58, the hole was drilled and tapped for the coil hand spring.  Turned out to be a pain in the rear.  The hand is shorter and narrower than a Colt hand (which I have done a lot of).  Took quite a bit of fooling around to get it to work smoothly.  Either won't bother on the next one (have to have two of all handguns for CAS!!!) or will try moving the hole a little to get the geometry better.  Will post some more pictures in a while.  I'm not a machinist so I need suggestions.  I have shortened the barrel to 4 3/4".  Looks great.  I want to be able to reuse the front sight and lever latch to keep it looking as "Remmie" as possible.  Those suckers were brazed into their holes!  Had to fire up the acetylene torch as a propane model wouldn't do it.  After getting them out, the holes are only .050" deep and flat bottomed.  They are also different sizes.  I thought I could use an end mill to make the holes.  However, the sight and catch are odd sizes.  The mills are all to big or to small.  I tried a regular drill bit on the cut off piece of barrel, but the taper on the drill will penetrate the barrel before the drill cuts the sides for the sight and catch.   Any ideas on how to make an odd sized flat hole?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

P-fogger, I got a replacement round front sight from VTI - don't know it it was Pietta or Uberti, but I think Pietta.  I had done too much filing on the original to re-use it.  The replacement sure IS a weird size.  I have all fractional bits from 1/16" to 3/4", alphabet A to Z and number drills from 1 to 80.   Not a durn one was the right size!    I ended up drilling a hole using the drill that was the closest, but slightly larger.  I ground some "gripper" marks/grooves on the sight bottom and edges and used some 2 hour epoxy, since I didn't have access to a 10 ton press and I couldn't get it done with my vise.  That was about 5 yrs. ago and several hundred shots with no loosening.  I ended up hand cutting a dovetail and using that type for the lever latch.  I THOUGHT that the dovetail would be the hardest job, but with the trouble about the sizing and drilling of the front sight, it turned out to be more difficult!


Eagle Eyes, did ya get to put some lead downrange this weekend?

[Eagle Eyes Jefferson]

Steel Horse,
I didn't do any CAS type shooting but on Tues. I did get to qualify with my Beretta 9mm at the police range. Since I am in internal affairs, I wear a suit and when cold weather hits I wear an overcoat.........so I figured train like it's real and shot the entire course in the overcoat. I had to toss it aside to get to the pistol and everybody laughed at me until the shootin was done. The officer to my left shot an 82 and the officer to my right shot a 78. I shot a 97, overcoat and all. Nobody laughed then but me!!!!!!! It was quite a bit of fun.

Did you make it out to shoot any? I am leaning pretty strongly towards the remington 58 conversion in .38 cal. for my main match pistols. Of all of the ones I've held in my hand, I like the feel of the 58's best. I've already got the shotgun covered, my dad's L.C.Smith S X S 12 ga. It needs alitte work but I can get that done locally.

Whereabouts in Indiana are you located?

EEJ

[Cuts Crooked]

Steel Horse,
I didn't do any CAS type shooting but on Tues. I did get to qualify with my Beretta 9mm at the police range. EEJ

Hey Double E, which model 92 do you use? My dept issues the 92D, which frankly...sucks! Servicable, but it is Gawd awful!!!!!!!!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Hey Double E, which model 92 do you use? My dept issues the 92D, which frankly...sucks! Servicable, but it is Gawd awful!!!!!!!!

Cuts - 

Steel Horse,
I didn't do any CAS type shooting but on Tues. I did get to qualify with my Beretta 9mm at the police range. Since I am in internal affairs, I wear a suit and when cold weather hits I wear an overcoat.........so I figured train like it's real and shot the entire course in the overcoat. I had to toss it aside to get to the pistol and everybody laughed at me until the shootin was done. The officer to my left shot an 82 and the officer to my right shot a 78. I shot a 97, overcoat and all. Nobody laughed then but me!!!!!!! It was quite a bit of fun.

Did you make it out to shoot any? I am leaning pretty strongly towards the remington 58 conversion in .38 cal. for my main match pistols. Of all of the ones I've held in my hand, I like the feel of the 58's best. I've already got the shotgun covered, my dad's L.C.Smith S X S 12 ga. It needs alitte work but I can get that done locally.

Whereabouts in Indiana are you located?

EEJ

Howdy Eagle Eyes - I live in Indy-no-place.

Did I get to shoot?  No - the rain on top of what ice and snow are left on the ground here forced a cancellation 

Are you looking at a Pietta or an Uberti - or perhaps a Euroarms?  I ask because Pietta uses the same frame and such for their .36 as their .44s.  Uberti, however, sizes theirs down, and the way I hear it, the Euroarms is even smaller and may actually be closest to the originals in size.  All three are well-made, and you'll find opinions about equal as to quality of each.  Mine is a Pietta made about 10 - 20 years ago when they were making 44 cal. anchors. :-(  I did extensive rework and now it's a nice shooter.  The newer Piettas are quickly gaining a great reputation and are giving Uberti a run for their money. 

Congratulations on your "overcoat" shoot!  I was still in the Army when we switched from the 1911A1s to the the M9 (92) and I never liked the thing much ... except to shoot it.  That sounds odd, but at the RANGE it's a nice gun that shoots well.  What I DIDN'T like was (mostly) the fact that we were forced to use 9mm hardball ammo.  That makes the round (IMHO) little better than a 25 auto.  (That MAY be a BIT exaggerated.   But not much! )  Also, we had MAJOR MAGAZINE PROBLEMS, both from the Italian AND the American made versions. (100% in my unit!)  They couldn't be left loaded for more than a couple weeks or the spring would cease to be dependable with more than 10-11 rounds!  I hope that's fixed now for all of you carrying those guns.

Happy Trails!

[Eagle Eyes Jefferson]

Hey Cuts,

We currently use the 92 Vertec, no safety, just de-cocking lever. We will be going to Beretta .40 cal. in March '08. Not my favorite pistol but it will get the job done.


Steel Horse-  I believe the one that I was checking out at a local gun shop was the Uberti. I liked the feel of it in my hand and bringing it up to aim was a snap. It doesn't hurt that I just plain like the look of the thing either!!! I tried the 1890 Rem. for fit and didn't like the grip at all. The '58's felt good as far as grip is concerned.  So far so good on the magazine problems with the beretta. I was on the SWAT team for awhile and we shot alot and nothing ever failed in reference to the gun or magazines for me. I am looking forward to the upgrade to .40 cal. A real bullet!!! Yikes!!!!

EEJ