Tallow vs. Crisco???

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Another thread going down the "loo"!

[Dr. Bob]

Sir Chas.,

Picky, picky, PICKY!!!!  

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I hear if you add hemorrhoid cream to the bullet lube it'll shrink your groups.

If only it were that simple!

Another thread going down the "loo"!

Too much crappy humour, Sir. Charles? 

Sir Chas.,

Picky, picky, PICKY!!!!  

So it seems, Dr. Blob!  Perhaps he's been "hanging around" too much with the likes of thee and me? 

[Grapeshot]

Regardless of what you mix with Bees Wax, if you add Murphy's Oil Soap it will increase the melting temperature quite a bit.  I used it last year with my BP Lube batch and it was withstood the summer heat down here in Maryland.  The can of lube I have in my shed gets subjected to at least 120 degrees at noon day and still is a solid.  Very SOFT, But still a solid.  Flows real well in my Lyman 450 Lubrisizer.

[hellgate]

Grapeshot,
How much MOS would you add to a 50/50 mix of BW and lard/crisco?

[Grapeshot]

Grapeshot,
How much MOS would you add to a 50/50 mix of BW and lard/crisco?

Assuming you are going to make a half-pound of Lube, I'd mix Three ounces each of Bees Wax and Crisco/Lard and Two ounces of Murphy's Oil Soap.

You may notice that as soon as you add the Murphy's Oil Soap, the Mixture turns a light cream color.  It may also boil up violently when the soap is first added.  This is a reaction of caustic soda in the soap, an action known as saponification, which significantly raises the melting point of the mixture and gives it a smooth, soapy texture.

Because of the much higher melting point, this lubricant is not suitable for pan lubing.

[Sundance]

Here in the UK you can get Trex guess its the same as Crisco, I use it straight from the carton works fine, also tried mixing beeswax and olive oil with it - makes it stiffer and less likely to melt.  Most of my shootin with b/p pistols though is during the winter months indoors, so no real need for the added aforementioned.

Majority of b/p pistol shooters here though seem to use felt wads, tried wads home made and bought and get better results with Trex.

[Sundance]

Out of interest what would have been used in the old days of cap n ball revolvers?

Bear fat etc...

[hellgate]

Sundance,
Back in the C&B days it was such a welcome advancement to be able to fire SIX SHOTS IN A ROW(!) that neither rapid reloading nor concerns with fouling entered the user's or designer's mind. If one needed more firepower they needed to acquire a second loaded revolver for another six shots. The idea of one gun taking the place of six had people pretty much shooting them dry and then when the situation permitted, the gun was reloaded or cleaned and put away until it need to be loaded again. Only when sustained shooting like we do in cowboy action matches do we now get concerned with fouling and rapid reloading. During battle situations the revolver was a calvary item and the gun was shot dry, holstered and the sword then drawn to continue battle. Southern/Confederate irregular cavalrymen often carried 4 or 6 loaded revolvers into battle. They did not stop to reload until the current battle/skirmish was over. I have read that there were no documented cases of a Confederate irregular cavalryman ever killed by a Union saber. Hence, the saying, never take a knife to a gunfight.

The military issued paper cartridges with greased (or waxed) conical bullets. I've not come across anyone using over ball lubes or revolver wads in the old days. Those concepts have been born out of target shooting where more shots would be fired from the gun than for frantic combat use. I have read (no proof of it) that wax would be dripped onto the capped nipples to waterproof them during rainy weather or river crossings. Who knows. Maybe someone could document some of the details.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I can't specifically document it, BUT I too, have heard of the wax over the capped nipple for rain/river/weather protection.  It should work fine.

Sundance, I can't add anything significant to what Hellgate wrote, because he pretty much said it all!  If ANYTHING was used, and I'd bet it was more of a revolver lube rather than a bullet lube, and if whale oil weren't available, it'd be lard.  No doubt some enterprising trooper MIGHT have stuck some lard over the bullet on a whim, but if so, it isn't documented.

[Flinch Morningwood]

Anyone ever tried using Ballistol in a lube mix?

I was thinking the other day that it might work if you mixed it with Beeswax...but that as far as I have taken the idea...

[hellgate]

You'd be getting into a pretty expensive lube when cheaper ingredients are available. No one's mentioned mineral oil yet either. I wonder if it would work? I do think the MOS and bw/lard is worth a try

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I think mineral oil is the secret    ingredient in Ballistol.  That's why it will combine with water to form moosemilk.  I think that it technically won't "mix" with water - I think Dick D called it a "colloidal suspension" or something along those lines.

Back when I was a machinist apprentice (I was laid off before I got my "ticket" and wasn't able to finish  ) we used an oil/water mix to cool our cutting tools.  They called it a water soluble oil.  I still have about a pint of it.  I wish I knew what made it different from regular oils - it actually looks like a good 30 weight engine oil, but I wouldn't use it, of course!  I don't even know the mixture ratio of oil to water - but it sure was a pretty pure white color when mixed.  And I don't remember that it stinks like Ballistol, either!

My "secret" lube is simply a little canning paraffin, about three times more beeswax and then all mixed with Olive Oil. (Sweet Oil) My lube is considerably softer than most of you would like, because I make it soft enough for use in my C&B guns and I have a lube squirter (like a big brass syringe or cake decorator - from Dixie Gunworks) so I can simply squirt some over the ball after it's seated.  For my 250 gr. PRS BigLube boolit, I pan-lube, using the same basic lube but with less sweet oil so that is stiffer.  I have NO lube contamination during the hottest months.  One of its' feature I like most is that when the lube is moved, either by touch or firing, it goes into a near liquid state - kind of like DD's Pearl Lube I & II.

[Flinch Morningwood]

I actually like the smell of Ballistol....although my wife doesn't!

[Noz]

Ran across Sam Colt's instruction that were included with each pistol. No over ball lube, no filler, no wads.
Put some powder in, ram a ball, cap and shoot.

I've had several chain fires now and have gone to a lubed felt wad. Seems to have stopped the problem.

My lube now is 1 part 129 degree soy wax, 1 part Canning wax, 1/2 part vegetable shortening. Seems to work in all applications I have for it. Does want to ooze and run thru a lubesizer tho. I'll try the mutton tallow next.

[john boy]

Pope Lube - All by Weight
6 oz. beef tallow ... substitute with mutton tallow
4 oz. bayberry wax
2 oz beeswax
2 oz. synthetic sperm oil ... substitute with jojoba oil
1 heaping teaspoon of fine graphite powder  .. Skip the graphite

No petroleum ingredients - long hydro carbon chains - no rancidness and produces a nice consistency

And if the lights go out, just stick a wick in the lube and you have a nice Bayberry Candle! 

[Fox Creek Kid]

4 oz. bayberry wax

The bayberry wax you get today is NOT the U.S. type bayberry wax of the 19th century as the bush was almost eradicated in the 19th century for the making of bullet lube which is why the military switched to Japan wax. The bayberry wax today is green & from Colombia. I've tried it & it's a rubbery mass next to worthless.

Mineral oil is worthless as well IMO. It's the crap that "Ox Joke" put in their Bore Butter before the company went teats up.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Mineral oil is worthless as well IMO. It's the crap that "Ox Joke" put in their Bore Butter before the company went teats up.

You DID say this is your OPINION.

Well, I guess that the THOUSANDS of Ballistol users know not of what they speak.  While mineral oil IS in Ballistol and ISN"T a good lubricating oil compared to other oils, it IS better than nothing (more or less) and works well for shooters who shoot and clean OFTEN, and keeps their guns from rusting AFTER the water in "moosemilk" does its job.  Same for Bore Butter.  I heard of ONE expert who lambasted Bore Butter, but it has served well for many successful shooters.


Personally, I prefer real lubes, but I have used BOTH products successfully - in the short run.  It's kinda like WD 40 - if you know its limitations and use it that way, it is fine.  Just don't ask it to lube really well, or act as a long term preservative.  This is MY opinion ... and I dare say MANY others. 


Is there a difference in Ox Yoke's "Bore Butter" and TC's ... "Bore Butter?"  I see a LOT of Ox Yoke products still being sold.  More than I'd think from a company that is now "teats up." 

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Ballistol is made from coal. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Ballistol is made from coal. 

OK.

I sit corrected. 




I DO see that, according to Wikipedia - the foremost authority on ANYTHING  , that mineral oil can be used as a substitute for "car oil" so that leads me to believe that it IS recognized as a usable lubricant.  It doesn't really seem to be thought of as "useless" I'd say.

Personally, I'll stick to my BreakFree, TW 25 and other purpose-built lubes.