Whisper Springs in Henry

[Long Johns Wolf]

A Texas friend got me a set of these Whisper Springs to replace the carrier and lever spring. And boy do they make a pleasant difference in my Steel Henry. Would not want to shoot her anymore with the factory springs.
Long Johns Wolf.

[litl rooster]

Heck I kept breakin the factory springs....glad I switched

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

My Steel framed Henry has a pair of Whisper Springs in it. Plus an action job by Happy Trails. It is a pleasure to shoot.

[sundance44`s]

Haven`t had my Henry long enough to break a spring , But if`in I do where could I buy a set of these Whisper springs ??

[litl rooster]

http://www.thesmithshop.com/

[Montana Slim]

Fairly easy home project to make these yourself (for the mechanically inclided and adventureous ).....all you need is a grinder, drill, and music wire.

Slim

[will52100]

How do they feel?  I'm tired of striping out the factory and aftermarket springs.  I don't want a too light "race-gun" feel, but this is the second set of screws I've striped out.  If I had time I'd bore the old screw holes out and silver braze a sleave in and tap it, but I simply don't have the extra time.

Thanks,

Will

[litl rooster]

How do they feel?  I'm tired of striping out the factory and aftermarket springs.  I don't want a too light "race-gun" feel, but this is the second set of screws I've striped out.  If I had time I'd bore the old screw holes out and silver braze a sleave in and tap it, but I simply don't have the extra time.

Thanks,

Will

   If your talking Henry's your not going to get a race gun.  The lever still travels alooooong wayssssss.  Changing the Springs alone will do nothing fo that. Operating lever will be an ease though.  I also bought the ShopSmith screws after breaking and stripping a couple sets of replacements screws

[will52100]

What I mean is I don't want too soft a reponse on the leaver or the lifter.  I like the strong spring that holds the leaver closed, and I like a spring that can overcome fouling build up on the lifter.  I don't even have a short stroke on it.

[litl rooster]

What I mean is I don't want too soft a reponse on the leaver or the lifter.  I like the strong spring that holds the leaver closed, and I like a spring that can overcome fouling build up on the lifter.  I don't even have a short stroke on it.

I haven't had a fouling problem. 
     

    The action will lock in place but operate smoother.  Meaning you don't have to go to the gym and work out to be able to operate the lever, less struggling.  I shoot with another pard who I believe has never changed his, he out shoots me.  He's probably run a couple thousand rounds by now thru it.  I changed mine cause they kept breaking. The whisper springs have held up better and I would buy them again

[will52100]

I've got a set on the way, the way Bill described them to me is that because there wire forms I can bend them a bit for a stronger action.  We'll see.  I haven't broken a spring yet, but this is the second set that has striped out on me, the thread tollarances are too loose and the screws are not heat treated properly.  First set was OEM, the second suposadly better aftermarket.  Both sets of springs I cleaned up and smoothed up a bit, not realy reducing there tension or making them lighter, just making it so they didn't dig into the leaver cam or hang up.

I've never had a problem operating the leaver, if anything it's a lot smoother than the only other leaver gun I had at the time, a 94 winchester 3030.  Though that's not saying much!  One day I'd like to put a short stroke kit in though, but dought I ever will.

Thanks

[Sod Buster]

I shoot with another pard who I believe has never changed his, he out shoots me.  He's probably run a couple thousand rounds by now thru it.  I changed mine cause they kept breaking. The whisper springs have held up better and I would buy them again

My original springs haven't been a problem yet.  If it ain't broke - don't fix it. 

[litl rooster]

My original springs haven't been a problem yet.  If it ain't broke - don't fix it. 

your a wise man Pard

[Driftwood Johnson]

What I mean is I don't want too soft a reponse on the leaver or the lifter.  I like the strong spring that holds the leaver closed, and I like a spring that can overcome fouling build up on the lifter.  I don't even have a short stroke on it.

Howdy

It ain't the springs that move the carrier up and down, it is the lever shoving the lifter that moves the carrier up and down. If there is fouling obstructing the carrier's motion, the springs have nothing to do with it, it is the mechanical linkage of the lever and the lifter that do the work. The springs only bear on the cam surfaces of the lever to provide an over center mechanism to keep the lever at either extreme. The Whisper Springs have enough spring to them to keep the lever securely up against the action.

The purpose of the Whisper Springs is two fold. They are designed to bear against the cams with less force than the original springs. The original springs are very stiff, and the cams on the sides of the lever will eventually be worn down by the force of the springs rubbing against the cams. Many gunsmiths grind down the springs so they don't wear the cams so much. Some shooters back off on the screws at the bottom of the frame in order to lighten the pressure the original springs bear down with. Hap does not like to see parts fastened together with un-snugged screws. That is part of the reason he developed the Whisper Springs. The Whisper Springs bear down with less pressure than the original springs and still allow their fastening screws to be completely snugged up. Since they are made of music wire, the pressure can be adjusted slightly by carefully bending the wire. But don't overdo it, it is easy to bend them too much.

[will52100]

Thanks, but while the springs do hold the leaver open or closed, they also assist with the dropping the lifter all the way down.  The spring rides on the link in the lifter.  One spring assist the leaver, the other the lifter.  You can hold the leaver closed and push the lifter up enough to tie up the action without opening the leaver.  If fouling has built up enough the lifter will not go all the way down and the leaver will still  close.  I normaly squirt I bit of moose milk on the lifter if it starts slowing down during a match.  Normaly it isnt a problem if I'll clean the lifter every 2-300 shots.  A lot of times if I'm going to shoot the next day all I'll do is run a bore snake through the bore and put the rifle up for the night.  I haven't had any trouble since shaving a few thou off the sides of the lifter, but it's on my mind after it did it at one match.  Probably worring over nothing.

[will52100]

Well I got my whisper springs in today.  Mixed feelings about them.  There very well made, but I had to bend them to get a positive feel to the leaver closeing and to get the lifter to even lift when cycling the leaver.   Action still "feels" wrong to me, but that's probably just me used to the old springs.  I'll see about putting a couple hundred rounds through it and see how they feel then.  One thing about it, the way they fit I don't think I'll have a problem with stripping screws again!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

The springs that came with my gun, made in 2000 (I checked the "born on" dates chart I have) had chewed a bunch of metal!  The left spring (as seen when holding the gun upside down and looking toward the muzzle) hadn't done much damage, but the OTHER one had chewed off at least 1/32" off the cam surface - maybe more! - and the tip of the spring itself had probably worn .015"-.020" - quite easily visible with the old Mark 1 eyeball!

So, last week I called Bill English.  ("Happy Trails" the Man behind The Smith Shop.)  I ordered the springs Tuesday  morning (the 23rd) and had them in my hand Thursday afternoon!  Great service, Bill AND the US Postal System!  Installed them Friday.  My "action job" was done by me about 5 years ago and consisted ONLY of smoothing parts, stoning the various cam surfaces, and loosening (slightly) the aforementioned springs - but not modifying them/lightening them ... only polishing them.  The action went from "smooth as a baby's bottom" to WOW! - even lighter & smoother!  Well, yesterday was our second SMVS posse shoot.  After about 75 rounds I have determined that I need to bend the wire a BIT that helps keep the cartridge lifter closed.  It worked fine, but when closing the action I had a tendency to be "light handed" and the lifter needed a bit more "shove" maybe half-a-dozen times.  Other than that, everything worked like a charm!

Keep in mind that I'm NOT a "competitor" type (they time me with a sundial  ); I only want my guns to function 100% and as close to the way the originals did/do and not having malfunctions or parts chewing themselves to pieces!

[will52100]

Well I tried them and then changed them back to the old springs.  There just a little to light for me.  Maybe with some action work and an aluminum carrier they'd be fine.  First time I took them out and tried them the carrier bound up and locked the rifle tight from a very little fouling.  Turns out the spring shifted inbetween the leaver and locked the rifle.  I also don't like the lack of snap that helps hold the leaver closed.  Seems kinda dangerous to me for a Henry or 66 without the trigger interup that the 73 has. 

I don't know, maybe with a full race job and such I'd feel differant about them, but the stock springs in now have been slicked up and thinned just enough to clean them up, not realy lighten them much.  I like the wire form design, maybe if the smith shop would make a style that is nearly equal to the old springs tension then I'd probably go for them.  I like the stronger "snap" in both leaver return and lifter that the stronger springs afford.

Like you my cam is getting chewed up, but that's easy enough to replace, and if I ever have to replace it I'm going to put a properly hardened one on it.

I will say that Hap sent them out as soon as I inquired about them and told me to try them out and see if the'll work for me and to pay after I tried them.  If they didn't work to send them back.  Well, I've had them in the rifle and bent them a bit and there no longer "Unused" by my definition so I'll be sending him money Tomorrow, just don't seem rite to send them back like that.  Besides I have a partner that may can use them.  Hap is definatly a good person to do buisness with and someone to ride the river with.  It's getting hard to find people like him nowdays, more's the pity. 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

You will not find a finer gentleman in the whole world of CAS than Hap. I'm also lucky enough to live close enough to his shop that he is the only smith that works on my guns.

I was sitting next to Hap when he installed the Whisper Springs in my Henry. He did mention that the curve on the springs is specifically designed to lay against the side of the lever in a gun that has had short stroke links installed. With an unshort stroked rifle the end of the spring that bears against the side of the lever is very close to the leading edge of the lever. If things are not quite right the spring can slip off the front of the lever, binding up the gun as you mention. With a short stroke installed, the front edge of the lever does not travel quite so far and the spring does not fall off the edge. But it is a simple matter to bend the spring slightly to prevent it from falling off.

But if you prefer the more positve snap of the stock springs, so be it.

[Coffinmaker]

There is a little  miss-information here.  The geometry and set up of the Brass Frame and Steel Frame are different.  In a brass frame, the lifter side spring does indeed power the lifter down.  The Steel frame is somewhat different, the lever has positive contact with the carrier arm most of the way down.  We who build competition rifles, call that "positive slam down,"  Positive slam down must be added to brass frame rifles.
The whisper spring was intended for rifles with an action job and short stroke.  Without the action job which includes positive slam down, the whisper spring is too weak to run the carrier in anything other than a 44-40 rifle.  The fouling from blow-by in a .45 rifle will cause the carrier to stick and stop the rifle very quickly.  The stock spring is deliberately heavy to power the carrier block thru the carbon fouling and lighter springs will allow the rifle to jam.  When a short stroke is added, the length of spring needed for correct operation remains the same.  Otherwise, the operation of the lever control spring will be incorrect at one end of the lever travel or the other.  The reason stock springs strip screws, is the springs rarely fit the arch at the rear of the frame and thus fit slight "cocked" rather than flat.  The spring must be "fit" to the rifle.

There is only so much energy stored in a given diameter/hardness of wire.  The whisper spring has insufficient energy for correct function in other than modified rifles especially other than 44-40 or 38-40.  Happy Trails has a disclaimer on his site indicating the whisper spring is intended for modified rifles.  Suggesting their use in other than modified rifles will result in some one being very unhappy and is a suggestion borne of ignorance of the requirements for correct operation.

The stock springs may be reduced a certain amount to reduce wear of the moving parts.  If the rifle is to be shot a lot, reduction of the springs is advised.  There will be little wear on the carrier arm, but the spring will wear the bearing surface on the spring completely off.  It will take a few thousand rounds, but it will wear off.  The lever control spring will wear the lever cam to nothing.  The new levers do NOT have a replaceable cam.  New lever time. 

If you shoot a lot, an action job no only makes the rifle more user friendly, it adds years of life to the gun.  Find a reputable tuner who can reduce the springs and add positive slam down if you don't want a short stroke.  Short stroke kits include positive slam down in the construction of carrier arm.

Making a rifle run smooth is more the changing a couple of springs.  Especially if they are the wrong springs.

Coffinmaker