.44 Russian Spencer Owners - Centerfire Block Conversion ** Photos Added **

Two Flints · October 14, 2007, 09:35:35 PM

Hello SSS,

Received this Email from a SSS member: If you own a .44 Russian Spencer and can help please post your solution, or anyone else for that matter. Thanks, Two Flints

Just wondered if you have any information on the cartridge block on the .44 Russian not stopping at the trigger plate and rotating past it , had it happen to me today during a cowboy shoot. Why does this happen? Is there a fix?

Steel-eye Steve · October 14, 2007, 11:54:36 PM

See my early post: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,2725.0.html

Gus Hall · October 15, 2007, 02:41:23 AM

Also just had this happen on my 56-50 at last weekend's cowboy match.

Only about 100 rounds total through the gun

Sent it off to the "authorized repair center" last week. Calling tomorrow to check on it. Will keep you posted on what the "official" fix is.

Gus

Colt Fanning · October 24, 2007, 09:16:06 AM

There is a lug which protrudes from the back of the trigger plate and rides in a groove in the top of the breach block. This groove
tapers down to nothing near the face of the breach block thus stopping rotation of the breach block. I had the same problem on a
original Spencer and attributed it to wear. I silver soldered an extension on the lug to provide enough interference to stop the breach
block rotation. In your case the cause is probably an out of tolerance lug on the trigger plate.
Regards
Colt

Appalachian Ed · October 24, 2007, 10:19:13 AM

I doubt it would be any help for the Italian guns, but if you wear out the front of an original (or Romano) trigger plate, original trigger plates are pretty plentiful. Dixie Gun Works and S&S both have them for I believe in the $30 range.

Gus Hall · October 24, 2007, 10:22:27 AM

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to this. Called the repair center yesterday and was told they sent it off the guy who works on Cimmarron's Spencers.

Kind of thought that was where they should have had me send it in the first place!

Now when it gets fixed this guy has to send it back to the first guy to get back to me legally. Guess I'll have to call this guy when I get home tommorrow. More to follow in a day or two.

Gus

Drydock · October 24, 2007, 11:13:32 AM

Cut a thin shim (I've used an old credit card, or look for something thinner) and place it between the upper and lower blocks. I cut mine square on one end with a U-shaped cut in the other to go around the block pin, this holds it in place. Problem solved. Got the idea from seeing a leather shim on an original in a museaum display. Its not a new problem.

Pinchony Creek · November 14, 2007, 09:44:40 PM

Hi Two Flints, just to update you on the .44 Russian cartridge block probelm I had. I took it to a gunsmith; he drilled and taped for a 10/32 screw in the back part of bottom half and said I should cut a spacer to go in the spring for the front support stop. I used a piece of 1/4" copper tubing to match what it took to stop at the same thicknest as the screw.

For my .44-40 rifle, which I just got last month, I took it to the gunsmith and had him do the same thing, so I wouldn't have to do it later; the .44-40 rifle was about 30 thousand's and the .44 Russian was 25 thousand's; so they are different. Now it stops with very little over-travel.

P.S. The spacer was about 1" or just a little shorter.
If you have any questions about the photo's below or the fitting call me 334-227-4712

Bead Swinger · November 15, 2007, 08:08:03 AM

Hi Pinchony Creek
Any chance you could post some photos of the done deal? It'd make it easier to follow. Others in the future (I expect) will find your experience useful.

Two Flints · November 15, 2007, 01:18:14 PM

Pinchony Creek Emailed me photos of his Spencer block conversion and a text of what was done.

Ok I got my wife to try with her phone camera best I could do. One shows the block with screw installed it's the black dot on the back of block , the other show's the spacer with spring and top of block . The installation was tricky I removed the trigger plate first , { also magazine tube of coarse } then cut the spacer to fit aprox 1" then filed it so the lever would operate without binding but not far enough so the block would exit the frame, trigger plate is still off, when it works smooth put the plate on and check it , that maybe all you need if the trigger plate has not been worn down . If you want to continue drill and tap for 10/32 screw , use lock tight , with the spacer removed start filling the screw down till it works smooth and stops same as with the spacer in then put the spacer back in. Should have very little over travel now.

Gus Hall · June 17, 2008, 11:23:17 AM

Well, a"day or two" has turned into 8 MONTHS and I finally got my spencer back yesterday. I excitedly opened the box to discover what the "OFFICIAL" repair for this problem is. According to the work sheet that came back with the gun, they "adjusted & tuned Upper Block & stop Plate". Upon inspecting the repains, I observed that this consists of hammering and filing the worn-off portion of what the parts drawing calls the "trigger guard" back into shape. This actually leaves LESS contact surface between the upper block and trigger guard than they originally had. After digesting this little bit of info, I decided to do a test run. While working the action briskly enough to eject empty cases, I was able to cycle the action 13 TIMES before failure of the stop.

After a "calming down" period, I tried putting a spacer between the blocks as suggested in this thread. Unfortunately, due to the geometry and relationship of the blocks and inside of the action of my gun, it would not work. I then phoned the "fella what done the work" and discussed how to remedy the situation. He is now going to send (after HE gets it in) a new trigger guard for me to install. So that's where we stand right now. More -- HOPEFULLY -- to follow in a few weeks.

Gus

Gimpy Gus · June 21, 2008, 12:33:09 PM

Gus Hall

Hope you have better luck than me. I've had a "trigger guard" on order for months now from Taylors. Pleening the t.g. and using a spacer has worked for now. No failures after 2 matches.

GG

Gunner · July 22, 2008, 11:37:39 PM

Howdee,
I have certainly suffered the same problem.
One fix was getting a replacement triggerguard and using it while a good friend re-welded the original.
What ultimately worked for me though was very simple.
Tighten the axis/pivot screw ALL THE WAY DOWN. TOTALLY TIGHT.
The action is not "loosy goosy" at all, but works very efficiently.
By having the action tighter, it prevents over-travel and also draws in the sides of the frame ever so slightly, help the twin extractors (ugh) working at their best.
Once I came to the realization of the screw being tightened, all jams and problems related to the gun went away, and that is many many matches.

Steel-eye Steve · July 22, 2008, 11:52:59 PM

Quote from: Two Flints on November 15, 2007, 01:18:14 PM
Pinchony Creek Emailed me photos of his Spencer block conversion and a text of what was done.

Ok I got my wife to try with her phone camera best I could do. One shows the block with screw installed it's the black dot on the back of block , the other show's the spacer with spring and top of block . The installation was tricky I removed the trigger plate first , { also magazine tube of coarse } then cut the spacer to fit aprox 1" then filed it so the lever would operate without binding but not far enough so the block would exit the frame, trigger plate is still off, when it works smooth put the plate on and check it , that maybe all you need if the trigger plate has not been worn down . If you want to continue drill and tap for 10/32 screw , use lock tight , with the spacer removed start filling the screw down till it works smooth and stops same as with the spacer in then put the spacer back in. Should have very little over travel now.

This fix is pretty close to what I did with mine. I has solved the over-travel problem for at least 5 years of reenacting