Whitney-Kennedy vs. Winchester '73

[Tubac]

Gents,
I like the look of the Whitney-Kennedy lever actions with the "S" shaped lever and wondered if they were the equal of the Winchester. The madness finally overtook me and I headed out to the desert for a comparison.
The guns were an "S" lever W-K ca. 1879 and a Winchester model 1873 that was shipped in 1883. Both had 24" barrels,
full length magazines and both were chambered for .44/40. They both have had a million rounds through them. Their dimensions were almost identical with the length of both 42.5". The '73 was heavier than the W-K by a few ounces.

The cartridges used were my reloads; 185 gr. .429 dia. flatnose lead, over 25 gr of Schutzen FFFG. There were forty rounds for each rifle.
The first thing I noticed was the oddness of having to have the W-K's action open to load the magazine. The Winchester loaded with the action closed. Both loaded smoothly with no hitch. No problem loading either magazine was encountered the whole
time.
I set up some milk jugs at 30 yards and started with the 1873. It functioned with no problems at all and I was able to consistantly
hit the jugs.
The W-K jammed four shells out of ten. It was accurate but inconsistant.
Another round with the 1873 and again smooth operations with no jams.
On the W-K's second try, I moved the lever slower. It still jammed three times. The empty would eject but the fresh shell would
come up and jam trying to chamber. It would chamber after I  moved the shell with my finger.
I then shot the Winchester as fast as I could, but no jams. It just wouldn't hang-up. No matter how hard I slammed the lever,
it wouldn't hang up.
I futzed with the W-K, adding more grease to the internals and put bore butter on the bullets. I had the same results, three
hang-ups out of ten. I ran through the rest of the ammo with the same results, the '73 would NOT jam and the W-K would jam
two or three times per magazine.
My totally unscientific conclusions were;
A. Lever throws, the Whitney-Kennedy's throw was two inches longer than the Winchester's. It seemed like you had to go too
    far. I found myself working the lever like a Winchester and having to go further to open the action. It seemed that you were
    moving the lever too far forward.
B. The cartridge lengths could also have been a problem ( they were picked a random from a box, so I'd think the 1873 would have
     as much chance of getting a long cartridge as the W-K). The W-K may be more "finicky" with case lengths,
Either of these could be worked on and perhaps inprove the consistancy of the Whitney-Kennedy.
As I said, this was just me "putzing" around, but it was interesting. All I can say is that my 1873 was much more reliable than my Whitney-Kennedy. W-K dropped the "S" shaped lever and adopted a loop lever after the first couple of years. Perhaps the new
design improved the lever throw problem I had.
Anyway, just me wasting an afternoon in the desert.

Tubac

[Tubac]

Photos

[St. George]

Thanks for a most interesting post.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

Curious, how close are your loads to the SAMMI standard for the 44-40?  With a 185 gr I wonder if they are a slight bit short.  I wonder how it would work with a 200 gr exactly like the original loaded to the SAMMI specs.

Just some food for thought.

[Tubac]

Delmonico,
I hear what you're saying, but since all 80 cartridges were loaded at the same time on the same press, they should have been
somewhat uniform. I grabbed cartridges at random from a
box I had dumped them in. Since random cartridges were loaded in both
the Winchester and the Whitney-Kennedy short cartridges would have been loaded in each. If all the cartridges were short, why did some work in the W-K and all work in the Winchester? Any how, thanks for your comments. It was a nice way to waste an afternoon.

TUbac

[Delmonico]

OK, got home where I have some referance material.  What I was curious is how close are the rounds OAL to the ideal 1.55 inch long and how does the bullet shape compare with an original 44-40 bullet, some of the cowboy bullets have a bigger flat up front.

[Black River Smith]

Del makes an excellent comment about OAL, bullet weight and nose-shape.  A semi-WC shaped bullet would always jam in my 1894 44Mag Marlin but a RFN works great. 

Also I noticed you used a 0.429 bullet instead of what was originally a 0.427 diameter bullet.  This would increase mouth and neck diameter of casing.  The chamber could be tighter in the W-K than the Win creating a snugger fit and requiring a more precise alignment.

Also did you slug the bores?  I use an original Win 44-40 mold for my original Win73.  Before this I used the Lyman 42798.  Both sized to 0.427.  I think it makes a difference in these original rifles, but not in the newer repros, where the bores are 0.429.

Just some added thoughts to your experimentation.

Thanks for the comparison.

[Tubac]

Well, It seems Delmonico and Half Creek Charlie are correct.  I made up ten dummy rounds
using an old Ideal .44/40 handloader( the kind with the built in mould and the die machined
into the handle). They each measured 1.56", and they worked great. NO jams.
It would appear the the W-K is picky about OAL, while my 1873 loads and fires anything "close".
I used the .429 bullets so it seems OAL is the key, rather than Bullet Diameter.
Thank you Delmonico, Charlie and Black River. So, all you Whitney-Kennedy shooters better keep a
close eye on the cartridge lengths.
Tubac

[minerotago]

A most interesting topic here - close to my heart it is!

I have a Whitney kennedy with exceptionally fine bore and a Winchester 73 also with excellent bore. Now I have loaded for both of them using the same components, compressed load of a full 40grains of black powder and a Lyman 42798 projectile.

I found that the Whitney Kennedy loading gate has lost its spring so that if it is loaded through the loading gate then the loading gate will not close. I have to feed them into the magazine from the topa nd that takes a bit of hassle and skill but there the problems cease. The Whitney Kennedy never misses a beat, it chambers and ejects without any problems and is very accurate indeed.
'The 73 loads easily but the action is not near as smooth as the Whitney Kennedy and it takes more force to open the action so I find it best to pull the hammer back before ejecting to make it easier to open. As far as accuracy goes it just isnt as accurate as the Whitney Kennedy. Both bores are really good indeed and the same cartridges loaded to the same specifications are used in both so any difference in performance is not due to the cartridges.

Whitney Kennedy for me every time.