Makin' "Punkin' Ball" loads in Magtechs w/BP

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy there, Hoofer!

I'd take Del's caution ta heart 'bout that ball acting like a snow or mud plug at the end of the bore!  I wouldn't (and am NOT in MY gun, going to) chance it!  Glen (Del) is VERY knowledgeable regarding many things, and shotguns are one of his specialties.  I've been talking to him on the phone regularly and he's been helping me (an' Rooster) 'bout these proposed "punkin' ball" loads.

Basically, if your choke is constricted enough that the ball won't drop 'thru, then don't bother.  Like yours, my chosen balls drop easily into a 12 ga Magtech shell.  However, my right barrel (IC) will allow the ball to pass 'thru with enough extra room for the wad (a lubed cloth patch, really) to also go 'thru with minimum shrinkage.  As Rooster an' I decided, a patch is very important, 'cause otherwise, the loose ball will rattle down the barrel.  Heck, it'll STILL probably be somewhat loose - even WITH a patch around the ball and a wad behind it! 

Now I can't advise ya about backboring, 'tho if that DOES open that choke up enough it oughta do jus' fine. 

The way my shell is gonna end up loaded is like this:  Mag pistol primer (NOT totally needed, but I have lots), BP (load yet to be determined, but probably close to an ounce or a bit less, a .125" 11 ga nitroed card over-powder wad, a .500" 11 ga dry lubed spacer wad, a dollop of lube followed by the wrapped (patched) ball, then more lube added and finally a .030" 10 ga over-shot card wad to keep it all neat and sealed with waterglass (sodium silicate) or Elmers to seal it all.

Your mileage may vary.

Have fun ... be safe

[Hoof Hearted]

SHB

The shotgun that I am proposing to use has no choke. I should have siad this in my original post.
I am not sure how long the forcing cone is but I do have a long forcing cone reamer and would not be opposed to reaming the forcing cone and honing it if Delmonico thinks that would help this .008 interference "on it's way" down the bore.

Here's the skinny on what I am doing:

Someone gave me the action and forend for an old Remington "side cocker" single bbl 12 gauge.
Then I found a replacement stock. To this I fit (sorta fits) an old Rolling block butt plate. I bought a barrel off ebay (before the AGB decided to stop parts sales). I have mounted a "ramp" with a dovetail (from brownells) and a Lyman 17A to the front and a "hunters staff" for a Stevens (from Jeff's Outfitters) to the tang. Had to tig the hammer spring (was broken). Did some trigger work. I now have a smoothbore 12 gauge rifle! Outta be just the ticket for those pesky tree squirrels near the house

by the way not "hoofer" say hoofhearted real fast over and over again........you'll get it

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Got it! 

I guess what I really missed is the size of the balls yer usin'.  Mine are .690" from a Brown Bess, I thimk.     Not a problem in MY barrel, but yours are bigger, so...

Sounds like an interestin' gun project ya got goin' on there Who ... er, Hoof Hearted.  I've been known fer shortnin' names 'tho Hoofer, so ...    'Sides - it sounds better shortnin' the FRONT of the "name" than the back ...




Yeah, I know ... 10 thousand comedians are out of work, yet I'm making jokes!

[Delmonico]

Back boring is going to cause problems with card wads and black powder, it's not going to seal well and you will get hot gases blowing past, but reducing velocity and raising heck with patterns.  With modern guns which work best with plastic wads, the brass shells will give better sealing because they use an 11 gauge wad rather that the 12 gauge wad that is used in a plastic or paper shell.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

something I heard from another pard was to lube the big round ball with Lee Liquid Alox, which SHOULD prevent most if not all leading in your smooth bore and choke.

I still say, a paper cup of some type is preferable, as you don't want the ball "bouncing" its way down the bore.

[Hoof Hearted]

something I heard from another pard was to lube the big round ball with Lee Liquid Alox, which SHOULD prevent most if not all leading in your smooth bore and choke.

I still say, a paper cup of some type is preferable, as you don't want the ball "bouncing" its way down the bore.

Alox and Black Powder is not real good unless you wanna make "goo"

My intent is to have the ball fit the bore.

[Delmonico]

something I heard from another pard was to lube the big round ball with Lee Liquid Alox, which SHOULD prevent most if not all leading in your smooth bore and choke.

I still say, a paper cup of some type is preferable, as you don't want the ball "bouncing" its way down the bore.

As long as the thing will slide through the choke it would be fine, but I would only use that method for a gun with no choke, otherwise you are slill at risk of damaging a barrel, the shooter and any by-standers.  Have you ever seen what just a little snow in the end of a barrel will do if the gun is fired?  

[Hoof Hearted]

Back boring is going to cause problems with card wads and black powder, it's not going to seal well and you will get hot gases blowing past, but reducing velocity and raising heck with patterns.  With modern guns which work best with plastic wads, the brass shells will give better sealing because they use an 11 gauge wad rather that the 12 gauge wad that is used in a plastic or paper shell.

I think I have cofused you here

This project is purpose built to shoot ball only. I'm not looking at back boring (I've owned back bored trap guns) to reduce pressure in the sense of  patterning shot.

I have built the correct wad column, fully understand the difference between black powder chambers/forcing cones and smokeless ones, and my goal here is to only determine how much "interference" I can get away with shooting a pore lead roundball down a smoothbore that is proofed for smokeless powder.

[Delmonico]

Well, that is different, earlier in the tread I posted the basics on regulating the load to make both barrels shoot to the same POI.

[Hoof Hearted]

Well, that is different, earlier in the tread I posted the basics on regulating the load to make both barrels shoot to the same POI.

Only one bbl
Hopefully with the gods on my side it will hit the same place as I point it

So do you think .008 is too much "interference" with all the afore mentioned specs?

[Delmonico]

I would be leary, after all for rifles and handguns we size lead bullets only 0.002-0.003 over bore size and they are much stronger, althought there is more surface riding the bore. 

[Hoof Hearted]

I would be leary, after all for rifles and handguns we size lead bullets only 0.002-0.003 over bore size and they are much stronger, althought there is more surface riding the bore. 

You know, I see this as a series of "buts"

On one hand convetional cast loads in a modern rifled firearm have much more "riding on the groove" so to speak. But the round ball has much less contact than that.
The normal stuation for a round ball would be cloth patched and underized because it is muzzle loaded. But this is breech and cartridge loaded.

I would like to forego the patch.
This is why I'm thinking to backbore to within a thousandth or two of ball size and then let pressure take it's course. By the way the .735 RB fits oh so nicely in the thin magtech brass. It's really quite impressive looking with a roll crimp just over the ogive and half the ball showing

[litl rooster]

I still say, a paper cup of some type is preferable, as you don't want the ball "bouncing" its way down the bore.

   With the Round balls that Steel Horse and I have to play with, this might be a answer to the flyers I loaded.  I am not sure the paper wouldn't burn up though

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The paper cup will be on top of the O/P card and cushion wads.  It'll litter up the range, but won't burn.

I've thought about it but can't get my head around having a good fit and getting it through a tight choke, safely!?

The best I can think up is the hollow Foster slug.  I think Lyman still makes the mould.

[Delmonico]

I've thought about it but can't get my head around having a good fit and getting it through a tight choke, safely!?

The best I can think up is the hollow Foster slug.  I think Lyman still makes the mould.

Yep, that is the best solution to come down so far, but it does date to the 1920's if that matters to anyone. 

BTW if anyone is interested, recent studies have show that more accidents happen in shotgun only areas during deer season than rifle areas.  Parts of southern NY were opened to rifles this year for the first time in well over half a century, despite what the nay sayers predicted, 9 days into the season there were no reported problems.  Perhaps the era of folks being forced to use a tool not totally suited to the task is on the way out.

I'm not saying that shotguns with single projectiles won't kill a deer, but are simply not the best tool for many reasons.

[Grapeshot]

 

The way my shell is gonna end up loaded is like this:  Mag pistol primer (NOT totally needed, but I have lots), BP (load yet to be determined, but probably close to an ounce or a bit less, a .125" 11 ga nitroed card over-powder wad, a .500" 11 ga dry lubed spacer wad, a dollop of lube followed by the wrapped (patched) ball, then more lube added and finally a .030" 10 ga over-shot card wad to keep it all neat and sealed with waterglass (sodium silicate) or Elmers to seal it all.

Your mileage may vary.

Have fun ... be safe

Howdy Steel Horse.  You sure your going to use an once of BP?  That calculates out to 437.5 grains.  Sounds like an Artillery Load more than a shotgun slug load.  Square load not withstanding.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Gee!  I wonder if our preachin' is gettin thru?  We'all tellin' em to measure the powder by VOLUME.

So that must be a VOLUMETRIK ounce!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Steel Horse.  You sure your going to use an once of BP?  That calculates out to 437.5 grains.  Sounds like an Artillery Load more than a shotgun slug load.  Square load not withstanding.

Grapeshot, you got me, sir.

What I have is the Lee adjustable dipper (for shot) which is calibrated in 1/8 oz (of shot) measurements.  It becomes a volumetric (or volumetrik  , Sir Charles) measure for BP that I normally use for my loads.  The 7/8 mark roughly holds 61-62 grs and the 1 oz 70-72gr powder - if weighed. (3f Goex - from a lot made recently)  My terminology is at fault, and for that, I apologize!  No need for Artillery rounds here! 

[litl rooster]

Grapeshot, you got me, sir.

My terminology is at fault, and for that, I apologize!  No need for Artillery rounds here! 

   You mean I shouldn't shoot the ones I loaded with the full ounce of powder

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Rooster!

Uh ... mebbe not.








If these loads actually fly in the general direction I aim at, they MIGHT be used to kill a deer ... but not by me ... or anyone I know!  Del is right - There's better anti-Bambi loads than a big ol' punkin' ball bouncin' its way down my shotgun barrel!  I'm just doin' this to see if I can kill a steel plate at 50-75 yds. on our next woodswalk!