Clothing

[Silver Creek Slim]

Since we was looking at that wrangler's "waist overalls" and determined they were not Levis because they had two back pockets, I got to wondering when clothes started being made in factories instead of the local tailor/seamstress. Anyone know?

Slim

[Delmonico]

Way back before sewing machines.   I know there were factories that had people hand sewing in this country by about 1800.   Sew by machine, late 1840's most likely.  Remember Oliver Winchester used the money he made in shirt manufacture to buy every one out and start the Winchester Arms Company.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Del, do you have a reference for a "waist overalls" manufacturer before 1873 (Levi Strauss)?

Slim

[Delmonico]

Let me do some research, I'm not sure where I've seen the referances.  Also would you post the Levis link, I just accidently deleted it.  And you better go back and look at that fellars "waist overalls" again.   Ya ain't lookin' deep enough, nobody yet has caught it till I showed them.  The next time I see John Carter the ramrod over this collection I am gonna have a long talk with him.

[Silver Creek Slim]

http://www.levistrauss.com/about/history/denim.htm

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

Let me do some research, I'm not sure where I've seen the referances.  Also would you post the Levis link, I just accidently deleted it.  And you better go back and look at that fellars "waist overalls" again.   Ya ain't lookin' deep enough, nobody yet has caught it till I showed them.  The next time I see John Carter the ramrod over this collection I am gonna have a long talk with him.

The "V" notch, the pliers pocket, the cuffs? 

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

Did Solomon put a "brand" on the horse?

Slim

[Delmonico]

Yes, he did, but that is most likely a referance.  I need to do some checkin' with brand registration.

Slim look above the right front pocket at the button and also look at the material you can barley see going up the front.  I wish Solomon would have also taken a frontal shot.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Are ya saying it has a bib front?

Slim

[Delmonico]

Yep it is the strangest pair of bib overalls any of us have seen.  They are definatly bibs, but we can not find another pair like it.  Dern Cowboy with lace up clod hoppers and bib overalls, you'd think he never went and seen a picture show and found out what a cowboy was spossed to look like.

A couple folks have thought he was a homesteader hired on to help. (Not uncommon in the Sandhills, some ranchers and homesteaders got along well.)   But look at the latest model saddle, my tack historians say that style was just gettin' started at this time.  Also look at the horse.  The best lookin' horse in the SB collection.

Now would the common hired help have a new latest model saddle and the best horse on the range, I think not.  That leads me to think he is the boss and he don't give a dern what anyone says about his clothes cause cowboys are plentiful and he could get another if you don't like the bosses looks.

The opinions stated here are my own, but they make the most sense of this picture and many agree with me after a bit of thought.  Now on to the pomagantates Slim.

[Silver Creek Slim]

The braces "hook" (the thing that attaches to the "button" on the back of the pants) looked strange to me 'cuz it is like the "hooks" on my bib overalls. But I am no expert on braces, so I wasn't sure if it was uncommon.

Slim

[Forty Rod]

I don't know if it was common back then, but it was from the early forties to the late fifties in the twentieth century.  I wore suspenders like those to school when it snowed and Mom put me in second pair of pants.

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

Okie, I finally got the big version of the picture to load and put on my good reading glasses.

I don't see a bib on those pants, I see a gap at the top right side of his pants.
I can't make out the left part of the suspenders and don't see anything coming down the front right side of his body to attach like suspenders.

Above the right rear pocket and below the fastener for the suspenders, there's a small white rectangle that looks like a clothing tag. There's a black area in the upper left corner of the tag. And are those belt loops around the waist??

Did you see his right boot heel? There is no wear on it, while the left heel looks worn.

His horse just looks like it doesn't belong in that picture. It seems too composed for what is going on, too disinterested. It looks posed.

Then again, I could be imagining it.

AnnieLee

[Delmonico]

Look very carefully, the side button is there on the top of the pocket.  (Thats the one you leave open in warm weather.)  You can see a bit of the bib in front.  Often I have to use the arrow to show folks.   Yes the guy did have to pose enough to hold still cause the glass plate negatives take I've been told about 30 seconds.   But these give more of what things were like cause they ain't studio pictures.

[El Peludo]

Yep!  Them's low backed bibs, fer sure.  I used to wear some like that, well, almost like that; they were straight waistband and no take up tabs.  JCPenney used to sell them under their Big Mac label, but they have apparently stopped carrying them.  The last time I got some was about ten years ago.  They would be pretty comfortable to poke cows in, especially todays variety, with their elastic suspenders; they are not anywhere near as restrictive as hight backs - you could bend and reach a lot easier.

[Delmonico]

Thank You El Peludo, we ain't found anyone yet that admits to ever seein' a back fastner,.  Probally have but never paid no atention to them.  Do you have a picture that shows the frount.  Never thought about it being lower, not enough in the photo to tell.

[El Peludo]

Del, the front of the "low backs" that I wore was just like the regular bibs; a large patch pocket on the bib that was divided into two separate pockets, with a pencil "tube in the middle, and a buttonhole for fastening your watch chain, and a small inserted pocket for a watch.  There was a "quarter slash" pocket on each side at the front waist, two patch back pockets, a pliers pocket on the right leg with two pouches, and a hammer loop on the left leg.  There was a two button side opning on each side at the waist.  The only difference between the "low" and "high" backs was that the back had the 'spenders that went all the way down to the waist, instead of becoming a solid panel at the point that they cross in the back.  They really looked very similar to what is shown in this picture.  I sure wish they still sold them; I really liked them.