Cartridge belts? How early?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have a cartridge belt that is the money belt type and I was wondering how early these came into use. Did the working cowboy wear one. I'm sure that the working cowboy may not have worn his gun everyday.  I am working on my persona and want to be in the 1869-1873 period. I know the conversions came about in 1869-1870. I know there weren't any before the advent of metallic cartridges. I am content to use a regular belt with the rig and a bullet pouch, which to me seems more authentic in this period, than a cartridge belt/money belt. The belt holds 25 44 Colt cartridges. This rig was made for me about ten years ago by a pard in Mo.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Nolan Sackett]

IIRC the oldest existing cartridge belt is dated to circa 1861-2. One should to remember that rifle cartridge belts existed before handgun cartridge belts - think Henry's and M1866's as well as the single shots. And of course the S & W cartridge hand guns were being produced and used by westerners in the late 1860's. Concerning authenticity - Cartridge belts are well documented to the period you are interested, whereas cartage pouches are less so - but it's your choice.
Money belts first appear in the early 1870's about the same time as the Mexican loop holsters and were widely worn by working cowboys by the late 1870's and was the most popular belt worn by cowboys in the 1880's and 1890's.
Take a look in Packing Iron for early cartridge belts which were generally narrower than later models: 2-2.5" wide is a good size for that period, of single weight bark/veg tan leather 7-9 oz, and often had either square center bar buckles or roller type harness buckles rather than the clip corner. Buckles were normally either brass or nickle plated - nickle plated could be nickle over brass or nickle over iron. Existing originals have cartage loops that were: sewn, laced, riveted, and stapled on.

Hope this helps....

[St. George]

A cartridge belt worn over the shoulder is called a 'bandoleer'.

They're necessarily longer, so as to accomodate the difference in breadth - and were made for rifle cartridges.

Often - you'll see bandoleers with pockets on them - notably in period photos taken during the Mexican Revolution that lasted from 1910-1916 - those were to accomodate the stripper clips of the Mauser rifles issued to the Federales and appropriated by the Villistas and Zapatistas who took them from the dead.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Dr. Bob]

"and were made for rifle cartridges."  Are you saying that they would not have been made for pistol caliber cartridges used in rifles?

[St. George]

What I'd referred to are the myriad of extant photos that show them with rifle cartridges of the type most closely associated with 'rifles' - 7mm Mauser, for example.

The cartridges used with both rifle and revolver would be found on those belts that also were carrying holstered revolvers...

Scouts Out!

[Longhornboot]

I'm not aware of any purpose made 'Bandoleers' in use before the Mexican Revolution, occasionaly it can be seen where a regular cartridge belt has been extended to be worn accross the shoulder, but this is quite rare and I've never seen two worn crossed as in the Revolution.
This is a lot of amunition for anyone other than some Para Military body such as a Revolutionary to be carying about his person.

Boot.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I have seen pictures of "cartridge" belts that were nothing more than a pouch to hold a box of combustible cartridges. (it would fit 2 boxes of 6 cartridges) Unfortunately, I have no date to associate with this item. (I am guessing it was most likely post 1866)

As far as belts with cartridge loops, it is my understanding that none of those existed before 1866.

Belts with a pouch the held Spencer or Henry ammo was not unique, but, certainly not common place.

[Nolan Sackett]

As far as belts with cartridge loops, it is my understanding that none of those existed before 1866.

As I noted above they showed up around 1860-61. IIRC Ottawa Bill came up with that date based on a patent for said loops and it was for a 22 caliber?.........

[RattlesnakeJack]

I'm not aware of any purpose made 'Bandoleers' in use before the Mexican Revolution ....

Bandoliers were in common use elsewhere in the world at least 20-30 years before the Mexican
Revolution (.... assuming you mean the Mexican Revolution of the early 20th Century ....)

In particular, bandoliers used by the Boers in South Africa during such conflicts as the Zulu War (1879) and
the First Anglo-Boer War (1880-81) so impressed British mounted troops that they commonly had them made
up for their own use by regimental saddlers, and in 1882 the War Department adopted an official pattern of
Mounted Infantry Bandolier for .577/.450 Martini-Henry ammunition:



(The earlier field-expedient bandoliers were generally the more commonly thought-of type, i.e. without flaps.)

Members of members of the Canadian Mounted Infantry in winter kit (photo taken shortly after their formation
in 1886) wearing the Pattern 1882 bandolier - though used to carry .577 Snider-Enfield cartridges:



Also, here is a photograph of a Canadian Militia rifleman taken right after his return from service in the 1885 North West
Rebellion, wearing his field gear including rifle catridge bandolier (... although he kept charge of his Snider-Enfield rifle
and other kit, in keeping with standard practice they probably wouldn't let him out of the Armoury with live ammunition
to go to the photographer's studio ...  )

[Dakota Widowmaker]

As I noted above they showed up around 1860-61. IIRC Ottawa Bill came up with that date based on a patent for said loops and it was for a 22 caliber?.........

I stand corrected... (reading is a skill I don't always exercise)

I will see if I can dig up a copy of the photo of the cartridge box holder I was talking about. (I am in the process of making one myself)

[Boot]

Thanks Rattle Snake Jack,
                                   Some very good information there, I was thinking Old West when I made my post, but I think the Canadian conection falls within that catagory. I've still not seen any in civilian use though, as is common within the SASS comunity.

Boot.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

In SMALL ARMS OF THE MOUNTED POLICE,  Historical Arms Series No 6, by Phillips & Kirby, Museum Restoration Service, 1965, at page13 there is a photograph of a constable in the 1880's wearing a MILLS BELT to hold his .45-75 ammo.  As I.G. Baker Company of Fort Benton, Montana was the primary outfitter for the NWMP, this is quite consistent, and likely a popular choice on patrol.

[ColonelFlashman]

That would be the Mills belt for the '76 Whinchester chambered in .45-75., worn w/ the '76 pattern N.W.M.P. Uniform .