Poor service from Cimerron

[will52100]

I purchased a 51' navy conversion back in April and it had some issues.  So far the gun is back at cimmeron for the second time and I and my dealer are still getting the runaround.  This will be the last time I ever deal with cimmeron.  There service is poor in the extream.  I've always heard good things about them but this is pathetic.  So far of three revolvers I've got from them I've had problems though I don't count the 72' as I knew going in that I'd probably need to replace the firing pin.

I mainly wanted to warn everybody that if you have problems with a gun purchased from cimmeron you might get it fixed, or you might still be getting the run around 5 months later.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've no objection to someone posting an "I was screwed" thread, BUT you could at least show the common sense to tell everyone what exactly the problem is (if there is one) before launching into a broadside salvo against Cimarron. I've seen many times whereas the problem was only a problem as perceived by the owner. Maybe your situation is & maybe it isn't as we're only getting one side of the story.

A lot of firearm message boards on the Internet won't even allow ANY critique of a gun company or gunsmith as most authors seem to be either one sided and not forthcoming with all pertinent information or else it turns into a "free for all".

[Deadeye Don]

I agree with Seth.  Tell us more about the problem you are having with the gun.  In cases where there is a problem with a distributor the more information posted the better.  We all want to be able to make informed choices when purchasing firearms.  Please tell us more.  Thanks.  Regards.  Deadeye.

[will52100]

Fox creek I understand your point, but I'm not a newby and have owned and shot opentops, percussion and conversions for close to 20 years.  I'm not a gunsmith but do do machine work and work on most of my guns.  This is not a case of the wedge being driven in too far.  I'm by no means an expert but I'm not just used to solid frame revolvers and am familure with most of the problems that can occore with opentops.  I should have taken into acount that nobody would have anyway of knowing that however, and there is always the posibility that I missed something obviouse and am always open to suggestions.

So far I've gotten three revolvers from cimmeron and all three had problems.  The first I can't realy count as I knew I'd probably need to replace the fireing pin on the 72' open top before ordering. 

The second was a 60RM, it came with a 44 cylinder and a 45 barrel.  They replaced it with about a 3 month turn around.  The one I got rubed everybit of blueing from the rollengraving and rubbed a ring around the cylinder from the stop.  I tunned it and fixed the minor finish problems and rust blued the cylinder.  The reason I kept this and didn't send it back was it was mainly cosmetic and easy to fix and the gun shot better than any match grade I've ever shot even with the hammer notch rear sight.

The last one I bought and will ever buy from cimmeron is a 51' navy RM conversion in 38spl.  It binds up after the first shot.  The primmers are not pierced and there is no metal flow into the firing pin hole.  I can turn the cylinder just a bit by hand and it will finish cycling.  The front sight was loose, the hand ground too thin and  binding in the breach plate window, headspace way too much, several other fit and finish problems that I can't think of off the top of my head that I noted.  If it would have functioned properly out of the box I would not have sent it back.  I'd rather fix minor problems myself than send it back and have to wait on it or expect perfection on a gun that is priced under 500$.  The gun did shoot accuratly however, even though I had to manualy cycle the action.  The main problem is that it binds with both black powder and smokless, though smokless works sometimes.  I'm on the rig rite now and can't remember the reading I took, but the endshake and headspace was excessive alowling the cylinder to move forward and the hand to jam on the ratchet teeth.  Also the barrel cylinder gap is a little on the excessive side though if everything else was rite it wouldn't have bothered me much.  Also the hand spring broke while test firing.

My main problem with cimmeron is not that I got a bad gun, but there responce to it.  They took over four months to suposedly fix it and then when my dealer and I finaly got ahold of them to wonder where my gun was they said they'd throw in a free action job.  I was somewhat understanding as I know problems and screw-ups happen, and impressed that they would try to make up for it.  I didn't feel the gun needed an action job and am not a fan of reduced power springs but figured I could always change them back if I didn't like it and at least the trigger pull and action would be smoothed up some.  But when I finaly got the gun back I found that all they had done was replace the hand spring.  The arbor and bolt still had the bore butter I put on it after cleaning and sending it too them.  I discovered this after testfiring and finding the action the same, and the same locking up problem.  My dealer sent it back to them again and I emailed cimmeron with the problem and a week or so latter was told that the problems would be addressed.  So far nothing, neither my dealer or I can get any information from cimmeron.  My dealer has went so far as to say that he will not deal with cimmeron again and offered me a replacement from taylors at his own expense, but taylors is out of 51's at this time.

If I sound bitter, after the not knowing and "care less" attitude I've gotten from cimmeron and 5+month wait with no progress can you blame me?  What would you do and how would you feel?

Thanks,
Will

[Fox Creek Kid]

Legitimate beefs, all. With your luck, remind me not to fly with you. 

[Deadeye Don]

With the information provided, it would seem to me the proper thing for Cimarron to do would be to exchange the guns for ones that work out of the box OR give a full refund.  Let Cimarron play around with Uberti on the defective guns.  Honestly, I think you have just had a really bad run of "luck" with the Uberti guns.  However, I agree Cimarron is not being a good distributor here.  They better watch out, as Taylors will take over where Cimarron once was.......the top distributor of Uberti products in the US.  With all the flack I have been hearing about Cimarron these days (both here and on the SASS Wire) I think I will stick with Taylors.  Thanks for bringing your problems to our attention.  Regards.  Deadeye.

[Major 2]

You know I wanted to stand with FCK , Deadeye & Seth, but stayed out .... and then I read your comment.

I have had good luck with Cimarron in the past & have a Type II on order (lets see in Feb. it will be two years  )
at the shot show last January, I spoke to Charlie Hudson ( about it and other things)
I sympathize, and believe I would ask for a replacement or full refund, I would not even mess with the guns return.
I'm leery now, not about my Type II so much is Cimarron's lacking perceived customer service....

I have a Taylor's Uberti Forged Frame Remington Conversion... I lost a minor screw ( holds the extractor spring) Taylor contacted Uberti direct and I'm told Susanne Webb, is sending it direct to me ... no charge ... I understand...

I'm doing a CW film in Georgia and we will be buying 20 Spencer's....guess who we call ?

[will52100]

20 Spencers?!  Wow, would love to get my hands on one.  I just got word from my dealer that the gun is on mike harvey's desk and the problem should be taken care of.

I'm telling cimmeron to eigther replace(after test firing the damn thing) or refund my money so I can get one from Taylors when they get more in.

Will

[Deadeye Don]

Hey Will,    If you get the chance ask Mike Harvey if he has any Richards Transition models in 8'' on his desk next to your revolver. 

Thanks!!   

[will52100]

Sorry, this is the second time I've heard that it's "on his desk" and he isn't even back from vacation yet.

[Marshal Deadwood]

I only go to Taylors after some disappointing service myself Will. If it's not in stock at Taylors, I wait.

Ya'll can venture a guess as to why, but its with the spirit of the subject here.

At Talyors they sound like im a customer,, the Texas group sound like they just answered a tele-marketer and want you to hurry up and free up their phone.


Marshal Deadwood

[HANCOCK]

I agree with Marshall about the phone thing.

HANCOCK

[The Avocado Kid]

The way things have been going I think you are lucky you got to talk with a real person(even if you did get a tude)....press one for english....press two for....well, you get the idea

[will52100]

Well my dealer called Monday, and Tuesday, and Today and still nobody there that can take care of the problem.   This is starting not to be funny anymore.

[will52100]

well it's been two weeks and I guess it's still "on his desk"?   Still no word, except ones I can't use here.

[Capt. Willard]

I have a nickle Calvary model from Cimmaron..worked fine for awhile then it started to score the cylander ....it will not be going back to cimmarron but to a local gunsmith. I have heard reports off and on about their less than stellar service. Love the quality of their products though. I feel your pain..good luck.

[will52100]

Well it's been anouther couple of weeks and it's supposedly finaly on it's way back, maybe.  The suposedly test fired it with both black and smokless and got it fixed.  I'll know if and when it gets in.  This is starting to not be funny.

Capt. the wear your talking about is pretty common with clones, and most times caused by the locking bolt rear "ear" that rides the came is worn and needs to be a bit longer, or else the cam on the hammer is worn, or both.  Either problem should have taken a very long time to show up, but the heat treat on the imports internals is somewhat spotty.  I've got an opetop that started doing it after just a couple hundred rounds, my 60RM and 73 peacemaker by uberti have gone thousands of rounds without doing it yet.  Just normal wear and tear, and pretty easy fix, though if the parts were properly hardened it'll take years of hard use to show up.  I'm with you though, I will not be sending anything to cimmeron for service, and will no longer buy from them.

[sweettooth]

 A friend who bought his opentops from Cimarron decieded he would rather spend the extra 180 bucks Taylors wanted , to avoid the problems that arose on his brand new guns right out of the box. And Cimarrons only about 30 miles from him.
               Sweettooth

[will52100]

Well, got it back, it's better, but still hangs up 2-3 shots out of a cylinderful.    They said they tested it with both smokless and black powder loads, but I'm suspicious.  I checked everything over after cleaning and it looks like the gas ring isn't riding the back of the barrel, the cylinder face is.  I haven't measured the endshake yet, but it looks to me like the cylinder is moving to far forward.  If I tighten the wedge up, the barrel binds on the cylinder face.  I can cycle it fine by holding back on the cylinder.  I piened the gas ring a bit and it seems to have tightened it up, I'll know more after test firing tomorrow.  Worst case I'll probably have to get a new cylinder.  Or else send it to a good gunsmith.

Just incase any of you might think it's my black powder hand loads, this is what I use.  It's basicly the same load I use in my Kirst conversions.  17 grains of swiss 3f, 158 grain snakebite bullet, in 38 LC brass.  I don't think that's too hot a load for this gun.  If anything they run great in my converted 51's.

[Coffinmaker]

Of the last half dozen or so Open Tops & 51 RM conversions I've done action work on "right out of the box" had cylinder/barrel gap issues.  Headspace was acceptable and end shake was "OK" but there was sufficient travel fore and aft of the cylinder, the hand would push the cylinder far enough forward to contact the breach face of the barrel hard enough to bind the action.
Run an automotive blade type feeler gage between the cylinder face and barrel.  With the hammer down on and empty cylinder, the barrel/cylinder gap should be around .005 or more if your shooting BP.  As the gun is cocked and the action cycles, the gap should come down to no less than .004 with end shake no more than .001 and headspace .004 - .006.
For consistent BP shooting, I would suggest barrel/cylinder gap be opened to .008

Coffinmaker