SMOKELESS in the 56-50

[Harve Curry]

So as not to ruin the other guys topic about reloads I'll post here:

I've been shooting my Spencer for about 15 years now. Nothing I did is based on he said she said or emotion. I read P.O.Ackely, Maj.Geogre Nonte, and others. I consulted and shared my loads with experienced reloaders, and with a friend who could test internal ballistics.
I learned you can reload smokeless powders to be at or below black powder pressures. Velocity will be comparable or slightly less then with black powder.
I shoot Hercules 2400 or Unique. Unique makes a light plinking load and accuracy is moderately OK. My favorite load is Hercules 2400, now it's called Alliant 2400 but I'm still using the Hercules marked cans.
I get cut down 50-70 Bell brass from Romano and use a Rapine mold, CH dies.
This is before Italian Spencers were about or Al Gore had invented the internet.
What I got is good accurate ammo that shoots clean, is 75fps slower then some black powder loads, and is easy on my Spencer.
I use the same reloading ingredients to reload 45-70 in my 1881 Marlin with even better results then the Spencer.
I thought this Spencer was doing good to get 5"to 6" at 100 yards. I took a good look at the muzzle crown and took it to a gunsmith in Socorro. He agreed it was needed and recrowned it. I stopped off at the Magdalena range and put 3 rounds in just under 3" at 100 yards from a bech rest. That cut my groups in half.
, Bill

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,

Although I don't shoot it much anymore, just out of consideration for its 147 year old mechanism, I have shot smokeless loads in a M1860 Spencer carbine in .56-56.  I shortened, inside neck reamed and annealed DGW and Buffalo Cartridge (out of Milwaukee) brass, and used several different bullets, including Rapine moulds that Ray made up for me. Bullet weight was 350-385 gr, depending on the mould. These were all inside lubed bullets as heel bullets just didn't work that reliably.  I also used a Lyman 533476AX mould that cast bullets in the .545" range, that I had to size down to .538".  This bullet weighd about 410 gr. and is hollow based.

Turns out the M1860 Spencers had tapered bores!  Measure a number and they had .545" groove dia. just ahead of the chamber and .535" at the muzzle.  (Measuring was much easier than the M1865's in .56-50 due to the '60's having six-groove barrels versus the 3-groove .50 cals.)

Now it turned out that the WATER CAPACITY of these cases, with the bullet seated is about the same as .45LC with a 250 gr bullet.  The best load turned out to use a Rapine #546390 mould, sized .540", with a charge of 8.5 gr. Unique for a MV (at 45 deg. F.) of about 889 ft/sec.  28 gr. of Pyrodex "P" produced 930 ft/sec.  I tried 15 gr. of 2400, but accuracy was poor and muzzle blast much louder than with the Unique.

[NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE USE OF THE ABOVE DATA IN ANY ORIGINAL GUNS, INCLUDING MY OWN! EVEN USING BLACK POWDER IN GUNS OF THIS AGE IS A QUESTIONABLE PRACTICE AT THIS LATE DATE!]

Ride careful, Pard!

[Harve Curry]

Trailrider,
I found the same results/comparison with water capacity and the 45 Colt.  It's an interesting topic. Note how many cartridges were factory loaded with smokeless by ammunition makers so they could be fired safley in 32S&W, 38S&W, 38-40, 44-40, 45LC, is a few.
, Bill