Frontier Cartridge and Paper Cartridges

[Dutchy Rodell]

Does the CAS category Frontier Cartridge allow the use of BP/BP sub paper cartridges?   If so, can you uses a lubed wad over the top of the paper cartridge?  Since I am new to CAS and all thumbs, do you have any tricks/ideas on quickly and safely loading caps?  Dutchy

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Dutchy!

Yep!  It just has to be BP or approved sub.

I can't imagine why you COULDN'T use a lubed wad over the paper cartridge - either with or without the ball.  You certainly CAN use a lubed wad in a C&B gun, either under the ball (like normal) or over it if ya wanted, I suppose.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of any restrictions about paper cartridges OR lubed wads in either NCOWS (Pistoleer) or SASS (Frontier or Plainsman) competition.

[hellgate]

Dutchy,
I'm assuming you are considering shooting cap & ball in the FC category.
The FC category allows you to "reload" your C&B by merely CAPPING a charged C&B (powder & ball already in the gun, just not capped). Forget using paper cartridges on the clock, just cap a pre charged gun staged where the "reload" is to take place. I like an in-line capper and a Colt for "reload" stages. If it is a "shoot 5, load a 6th" stage then just charge up all 6 chambers and when it is time to shoot that revolver, DRAW, CAP the one open nipple, and then do the first 5 shots followed immediately by the 6th round according to the stage description. I always put one or two extra guns in my shooting bag for 5 or 6 shot reload stages.

A lubed wad is difficult to incorporate into a paper cartridge unless you rip, dump in the powder then put in a wad and ram the papered ball on top of the wad & powder. The oil in the lube will leach into the powder and paper.

You certainly can use paper cartridges in the FC category if you feel that will speed up your reloading of the pistols between the stages. I recommend a nipple pick to pierce the paper before capping or burst the paper and dump some of the powder into the chambers for reliable ignition.

You can fill your cappers at your leisure while watching TV. I hook the lanyard over the thumb button if it will reach to hold it back while inserting the caps.

Gonna need to correct Mr. Bailey, respectfully so.  A wad on top of the ball is never used but all kinds of grease can go on top or a nice gooey or firm wad can go under the ball.

[River City John]

Above are two styles of inline capper available.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I am wondering why you would want to shoot Frontier Cartridge with this load when it's legal to shoot it in Frontiersman class. Just my thoughts.

[Arcey]

Better go 'n check the cart.  Thinkin' RCJs done swiped my capper.

[Dr. Bob]

Arcey,

RCJ is pretty slick that way!   But really doubt that he would drive to Virginny to get a capper.  Not very cost effective.  Just to be sure that all understand, John is as honest as they come, but knows what a kidder I am.   The devil made me do it!!!

[Arcey]

Hehehehehehehehe....  Just messin' 'round, Doc.

I have a Knight.  Works well with the '51 'n the '58.

[Dutchy Rodell]

Halfway:  I want to shoot Frontier Cartridge because as of this time I'm not sure I can draw, cock and shoot one handed.  Can you load powder, wad and ball and shoot FC - otherwords must FC actually have a cartridge if you are firing percussion   Dutchy

[litl rooster]

Halfway:  I want to shoot Frontier Cartridge because as of this time I'm not sure I can draw, cock and shoot one handed.  Can you load powder, wad and ball and shoot FC - otherwords must FC actually have a cartridge if you are firing percussion   Dutchy

no you can use Cab n Ball guns in Frontier Cartridge class, you can pretty much use them in all But the Modern class. If you feel to do so. Halfway Creek Charlie was sujesting you shoot in Frontiersman class, because of the type of guns you are wishing to use.

[litl rooster]

Better go 'n check the cart.  Thinkin' RCJs done swiped my capper.

Just stay away from my cart, I bought mine when you weren't lookin'

[Ransom Gaer]

Dutchy,

You can use C&B pistols in Frontier Cartridge just like you have to use in Frontiersman.  The difference is in FC you shoot two handed.  No big deal.  I've done it.  At one match I did it because one of my pistols was my 3rd Model Dragoon.  And I didn't want to shoot that heavy piece one handed.

Ransom Gaer

[hellgate]

Dutchy,
Take a good look at those two cappers and you will note that the "lips" of the springs on the tip of each have been ground down to where the spring does not extend beyond the cap. This allows you to get the cappers into the nipple cutout better on both colts and Remingtons.

And yes, you can use your C&Bs in just about any category you want. Even Modern if your other gun is an adjustable sighted center fire or an adjustable sighted Ruger Old Army. And yup, ya get ta use BOTH HANDS. That's what I'm a gonna do in a couple of weeks in a fun match where there were not enough Frontiersmen nor Frontier Cartridge Duelists to make a category so they are lumping us all together into "Frontier Cartridge". For quite a few years there was no Frontiersman category, only "black powder" so I started out with both hands on the C&Bs but managed to make the adjustment to duelist style. In the match coming up I am taking my Walkers and a Dragoon and gonna blow lots of smoke with both hands exercising "gun control". You are being conscientious to put safety first. Good attitude.

[Arcey]

Just stay away from my cart, I bought mine when you weren't lookin'

Bet ya done scratched 'LR' inta it too........................

[Major E A Sterner]

no you can use Cab n Ball guns in Frontier Cartridge class, you can pretty much use them in all But the Modern class. If you feel to do so. Halfway Creek Charlie was sujesting you shoot in Frontiersman class, because of the type of guns you are wishing to use.

Lil Rooster, You can use C&B pistols in Modern if they have adjustable sights(Ruger Old Army, 58 Rem "Buffalo hunter-12 inch barrel,adj sights)

[River City John]

Dutchy,
Take a good look at those two cappers and you will note that the "lips" of the springs on the tip of each have been ground down to where the spring does not extend beyond the cap. This allows you to get the cappers into the nipple cutout better on both colts and Remingtons.

Yes, both have been ground on the ends for better access to nipples. The top one, a design by Ted Cash, is the one I use most.
Colts and clones have nice square nipple recesses which are easy to cap. The Remington's nipple well opening narrows down so that it was preventing me from seating caps solidly against the nipple, so I enlarged the opening with a Dremel cutter and jeweler's files.


I also filed the hammer face angle so that it was perpendicular to the plane of the cylinder end and allowed the hammer face to strike the nipples squarely. Also changed out the nipples for Treso nipples designed for #11 caps. The caps stay put now under recoil because the flash hole on the Treso is smaller than the original stock Italian ones, thus reducing blowback pressure from blowing the spent cap off.

As you can see, the stock Italian nipples taper and have a rounded shoulder that allows all makes of cap to fit. The Treso on the right has stright sides and a square top that holds the cap better.
Shown are caps available, from left to right: Remington #10, #11; Dynamit Nobel # 1075; CCI # 10, #11.
#11s seem to be the size most sources can keep in stock on a regular basis around my area.
RCJ

[Steel Horse Bailey]

... (edited) Gonna need to correct Mr. Bailey, respectfully so.  A wad on top of the ball is never used but all kinds of grease can go on top or a nice gooey or firm wad can go under the ball.

Howdy!

Lots of good info here.  No need to correct me, Hellgate.  That is why I said he could use the wad OVER the ball if he wanted "I suppose" but yes, the normal way is a wad UNDER the ball (lubed or dry- preferably lubed) or cover the ball with grease.  But you COULD put a wad over the ball if you want - it just aint normaly done that way!