Originals Class???

[J.R. Logan]

I am a bit confused about the Original Class?  The rules say any 2 NCOWS legal firearms, but in reading more on the class it states that it is like WC with Rifle and Pistol only.  What I would like to know is why can it not be any 2 legal firearms?  I.e.:  Pistol, Pistol, Town Marshal; Shotgun, Pistol, Stage Coach guard;  Pistol, Pocket Pistol, Gambler, there are a lot of Personas that would not just have a Pistol and a Rifle.

Thanks for the info.

J. R. Logan  NCOWS 2959

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

J.R.......
For your convenience....I've posted the rules for the Originals Class from the most recent version of the tally book...which if you don't have a copy..you can find on the NCOWS Web site.

Nowhere in the rules for the OC does it say it is like the Working cowboy class and it also does not state you have to use Rifle & Pistol only... see item #5.

If you want to use two pistols then by all means do so....With that in mind...at some of the NCOWS shoots...some targets are placed at distances up to 60 to 70 yards...that may be a challenge for a pistol.

Since the Originals Class was the idea of French Jack, OT Buchanan and myself...if you have any more questions about it...you may want to ask one of us.

Bill

[Lone Gunman]

The confusion seems to be rooted in the two articles, "To be an Original" & "The First Originals Match" that are reproduced on the Originals section of our website. Those two articles appeared in The Shootist  before The Originals was approved as an official NCOWS catagory.  The proposed rules went through several re-writes before they were finally approved at the Feb 2006 Territorial Congress.

I'll add a disclaimer to the page so that's more clear.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

LG....
After reading Marlan's description of the OC, I can see where some confusion on the firearms used may exist...We probably (you as editor)  should change it to reflect what is actually in the tally book to eliminate that confusion.

Bill

[J.R. Logan]

So let's see if I have this right assuming all stages are 10 pistol, 10 rifle, 2 shotgun.  If I am shooting 2 pistols in a match I would shoot the pistol targets with one pistol and the rifle targets with the second pistol and then reload the pistol to get up to 10 rifle shots?  Or would I just engage the pistol targets with both pistols like anyone in the Shootist Class but not shoot the rifle or shotgun targets?

Or if I am using pistol and shotgun would I engage shotgun targets with shotgun, pistol targets with pistol and then reload pistol to shoot rifle targets until all rifle targets are engaged?  Or would you just shoot shotgun targets with shotgun and pistol targets with pistol?

I really like the idea of the Originals Class and would like to try it out.  I just feel like I do not have a good understanding of how it works with different gun choices.   I am not trying to be difficult about this but I also can't imagine that I am the only one confused about this.

J. R. Logan

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

JR....
In most matches where the Originals class is shot you shoot five pistol rounds (even if it calls for ten) and what ever rifle rounds are called for...in other words after you shoot the five pistol rounds, then you would engage the rifle targets (with pistol if you prefer) with what ever the stage requires. Thats why it is important that all those shooting the OC shoot in the same posse.

This has been the norm in all the OC I've shot in. That scenario would also hold true if the stage calls for a shotgun.

Just a side point in the last dozen or so OC I've shot in...I don't think we've even used a shotgun???

As far as you being confused, we've had the OC now for three years and have never had a problem with which firearms to use in a match. The most often asked question is in reference to the second paragraph in item #5.

Bill

[Books OToole]

So far all of the Originls have used one pistol and one rifle; therefore scoring has be pretty simple.

The only exception that I am aware of is;  Lone Gunman used a pistol and a very short double barreled shotgun at the two gun regional.  And I am not sure how Griz scored that.

Books

[French Jack]

General practice has been for both the Originals and Working Cowboy classes to omit the second pistol and the shotgun.  This is usually stated in the stage instructions.  Normally, if a reload is required on a particular stage, it is required for all shooters, (all classes), but there are exceptions to this practice. 

The stage design is left up to the individual Match Director, Posse Marshal, or whoever is in charge of the stages for each Posse.  I suppose it could be set up so that anyone who wished to utilize a shotgun as one of their 'pair of weapons' would engage shotgun targets instead of rifle targets-- but then again it is left to the stage designer. 

To date, the shooters in the 'Originals' class have chosen to use a single revolver and a rifle for their two firearms.  If there is more interest in using a differnt choice, I am sure the fun will pick up immensley.

[James Hunt]

Perhaps we should fool around with this,

why not state that an original is allowed to select any two NCOWS legal weapons to carry thru the entire match - pocket pistol, pistol, shotgun, rifle. For each stage a specified number of targets are to be engaged using a defined number of rounds, ie; 10 targets using 10 rounds, the individual is then responsible to figure out their best course of fire. Reloading allowed as long as cover is taken while reloading. Sorta like a real shootout! You could see a card shark using a pocket pistol and a short barrel shotgun, a lawman would use two pistol perhaps, a hunter or cowboy a pistol and rifle.

Since I don't think a one of us is all that concerned with winning it would be rather interesting. Why not engage a pistol target with a shotgun? or a rifle target with a pistol? Perhaps for an original any rifle target may be engaged with a pistol and two hand hold. The selection of weapons should be based upon the persona and the type of weapons most likely carried. The disadvantage would be associated with the persona.

Simply stated: any two weapons, hitting all targets with a defined number of rounds.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

James......
If we follow the guidelines in the tally book we can do all those things you mentioned...The way the match is run would be left up to those individuals writing the stages....remember the infamous yodeling stage at the Nationals this year??

Bill

[Smokey Three Toes]

Hey ya all, I shoot Working Cowboy Class. 1 pistol and 1 rifle same caliber (45), in the shoots I have been in I have had to reload my pistol to complete the stage, 10 rounds for pistol, I have also been shoots where there were no reloads. Now the Cowboy or Cowgirls that have the top break pistols can really gain some time in those instances. I chose the Working Cowboy class when I first joined NCOWS cause my wife would not let me spend all the money right off the start for 2 pistols, 1 rifle, and shotgun. Since then I have purchased all the weapons but still enjoy shooting the Working Cowboy class. I also shoot SASS since our club has both NCOWS/SASS shoots each month. I get lots of shooting in...

   Smokey Three Toes   

[J.R. Logan]

Sorry I went back and read the Appendix to the Originals class and it all mostly makes since now.  I some how missed the rules after the scoreing part that explains how to shoot the stages. 

Thanks all of you for the added infomation.

New to NCOWS J. R. Logan 2959.

[James Hunt]

Bill: Ahhhhh yes... the yodeling stage. Wasn't someone hung in effigy over that stage? I seem to recall his name being tossed about in an unkind manner during the evening!!! Let's see who was that???

Seriously, I think we ought to jazz up an originals shoot. What I liked about the infamous "yodeling" stage was the fact that you shot until you missed and then you were out, the targets got progressively farther away, sorta like a gun battle where if you miss - you're dead. It was enjoyable - personally I went home with more ammo than I had planned on leaving with!

If there were enough of us to make up a separate posse, we could fool around with the stage description. Allowing us to make use of the ability to select any two weapons, have reloads on the clock being scored down if you didn't seek cover while doing that, etc. It would be interesting.

[French Jack]

If you did away with the clock like we did for that stage, there would be no advantage or disadvantage to reloads with any choice of firearms.  You might find out that you had loaded too many the first trip to the loading bench!!!

[Rowdy Fulcher]

What about a 1876 .Would that work as a legal rifle ? I have a 45-60 and it shoots a 300 gr. bullet at 1300 fps. 

[French Jack]

Personally, I don't have a problem with your 1876.  Different ranges might have some objection, they might think that would be too rough on their targets.  All I can say is:  Bring it to the JCR shoots, and you are welcome to use it.

[O.T. Buchannan]

I like the 1876 Winchester, and eventually hope to get one myself..

Dangit, yall was 'yodeling' at the last Nationals?

Was that after smoking the Peyote?  

[Irish Dave]

No. After verbally "smoking" RCJ.