NCOWS legal 'buffalo guns ?'

[gw]

FCK---I disticntly remember buying an old-time wiping rod at Friendship In.  to use at the first buffalo shoot I attended at Ackley in '00 or '01 Nat. Shoot. Still have it. I also was going to make a set of Hickory cross sticks to use but didn't get them finished. They did ask for those items to be PC, I may still have the buffalo shoot rules from then, have to look. The fact is, the rules were clearly stated, they were just not clearly enforced. I eneded up using their sticks.

MD---The Hi Wall has been allowed in every Long Range shoot I've ever attended in NCOWS, and has won that category once or twice!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Folks, have we not learned that if the rules do not spell out EXACTLY what is allowed and what is disallowed AND that they be ENFORCED that the "gamer' virus will be endemic? 

Like using boolits that hold enough lube to keep the fouling soft. 

Slim

[Delmonico]

Like using boolits that hold enough lube to keep the fouling soft. 

Slim

Or Crisco in the lube.

[RattlesnakeJack]

This may help you document the eligibility of the Model 1885 Winchester which, as already pointed out, is simply Browning's Model 1878, renamed (matter of fact, when Browning first re-marketed the design ... in the 1960's or so ... they called it the Model 78 - I had one in .45-70 (and wish to heck I had never let it go!)

The original drawings from John M. Browning's 1879 Patent for his Model 1878 action design ...

[French Jack]

FCK--- I hear tell that the 'Gamer Virus' has gotten so widespread that all the .40 caliber shooters are going to 605 gr. bullets, cast from heat treated wheelweights,  with some new fangled lube like SPG to topple those 'leetle bufflers'-----  'ding'  ding ding ding ding dang....

[James Hunt]

FCK you said: "cross sticks held together with modern fasteners, e.g., wing nuts. "

Perhaps this deserves its own thread - but is there a lack of any reference for wing nuts? You imply they were not used - I have no idea. Mayer in The Buffalo Harvest states "The sticks were a simple device,...., bolted together so as to provide a crotch..." Another reference uses a piece of buckskin whang to hold them together - to be safe that is what I use. How many simply held them together. Interesting. There is a reference for a bolt, just wondering about the wing nut, question is two fold. a/ were they available and b/ is there a reference of them being used in the buffalo fields (ah, ah, no conjecture here - just references if available). Don't want to start a big to do, simply wondered if anybody had a quick answer.

[Delmonico]

A quick check of my handy dictionary says Wing Nut became a common usage word in the American form of the English language around 1900.  When it was invented would likely been a bit earlier and it might have been called something else too.  A good research project for someone who needs one, got a few others right now that are more important to me.  Hmm, wonder if everyone eats PC at lunch.   Anybody know?

[French Jack]

Got sorta tired of bully or embalmed beef/pork and peas pickled in vinegar......  think I'll get a PC pizza.     

[Delmonico]

Got sorta tired of bully or embalmed beef/pork and peas pickled in vinegar......  think I'll get a PC pizza.     

To quote Ranger Doug, "That would be the easy way, but it would not be the Cowboy Way."   Same should hold true fer buffalo hunters.

BTW Gopher Grease and I did a PC pizza a couple times in dutch ovens, very good but you need someone who can pull off the Italian Immagrent part like he can to do it right.

[River City John]

Wrong. Many use Delrin rods and "high tech" wooden cross sticks held together with modern fasteners, e.g., wing nuts.

FCK, wingnuts are 19th century.


Observe use of a wingnut on this 1870 patent.

[Delmonico]

Thanks John, I figued they were there, just ain't searched for them.

[Kayleen]

 Now I am not sure just how many of you have attended the Great Buffalo Hunt of years gone by, but some of the first hunts were much more fun than they are today. The first year I shot in the buffalo hunt(8 years ago), I didn't know what a blow tube was, didn't know what the windage was and certainly didn't know what the humidity was.(It was humid a couple times during the National shoot,& hot enough to make frogs sweat) I went to shoot buffalo and that is what I did.
I rather doubt that buffalo hunters of the past even thought about the humidity or windge.
It is unfortunate that the train that goes through Prairie Fire couldn't be used for a hunt.
Sometimes going back to the way things started out would be just fine with me, especially when it comes to the buffalo hunts that we had.
Kayleen

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Mr Hunt – Did a quick search of the library and all I could find at this point regarding 'thumb nuts' is from page 161 in the Vajen & New Hardware Catalog (printed 13 May, 1884 – Indianapolis, Indiana).



It's not much but hope it helps.

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Marshal Deadwood]

There is a virtiual pandemic of 'lugnuts' however...

Marshal Deadwood

[Dr. Bob]

Marshal D.,

I see you are playing the roll of "Obvious Man" tonight!

[Marshal Deadwood]

Doc,,as with many situations, its not the ones you have that you have to be concerned with,,,,but the ones you no longer see....

MD

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Mr Hunt –

Here is a little more info on 'thumb nuts' history. I decided to put the following reference on this thread as it confirms the use of 'thumb nuts' referred to as 'thumb nuts' as early as 1794.

I decided not to reference sources for this type of attachment not employed specifically in conjunction with threaded bolts. So I have omitted a couple of thumb nut references from an English tool makers catalog circa 1845 and Volumes I & II of the famous Diderot Encyclopedias of Trades and Industry 1751 and 1752 respectively.

What follows is taken from "A Treatise on Carriages: Comprehending Coaches, Chariots, Phaetons, Curricles, Whiskies &c" by William Felton, Coachmaker (1794). (capital letters added for emphasis):

Chapter 5 Iron Work; Section #8; Bolts, Nuts, and Screws Page 119: "...which nuts are proportioned to the size of the bolts, and are of a square form in general, to be screwed by a wrench; SOME ARE MADE FOR TEMPORARY PURPOSES, TO BE SCREWED ON WITH THE FINGER AND THUMB, AND ARE CALLED THUMB-NUTS..."

Chapter 5 Iron Work; Section #8; Bolts, Nuts, and Screws, subset 'O': Page 121: "...by contracting the brace in the middle BY MEANS OF A THUMB-NUT SCREWED AT THE BOTTOM..."

Illustration 'O' from Plate XI on page 129 showing thumb nut screwed onto a 'T' bolt, the bolt is pointing down and thumb nut affixed at the bottom of the image:



YMH&OS,

Brass

[Fox Creek Kid]

I searched Google & accidentally typed in "numb nuts" and it linked me to Ted Kennedy. 

[Marshal Deadwood]

ROFLOL !

[Dr. Bob]

I have a mid 18th Century scientific instrument that use "thumb nuts."  It is a Georgian reflecting telescope that uses them to attach the telescope to the stand.  It is ca. 1750 and of a more or less standard pattern.  But, I don't have any documentation of them on buffalo crossed sticks.