BP shot shells..is this ok?

[Dodge City Slicker]

I have shortened some used 12g cases using the Ballisitic tool..this takes off about 1/4" which is a little more than the old star crimp...I then sized and primed them, put in 75 grains of 2F BP, 1/8"  nitro over powder card and 1.1/8 oz of 7.1/2 shot, then rolled crimped with an over shot card. My concern was that there was no room for a fibre wad (and no lube). I just compressed the powder slightly by using a dowel.
Is this going to be ok ?..I'd like to make sure before I fire them.

Thanks

[Grizzle Bear]

They should work well enough, but the barrel will get dirty really quick.

Grizzle Bear

[Dick Dastardly]

They will boom, flame and smoke just fine.  They may not pattern worth salt tho. . .

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I've gone down to just under 60 grains of GOEX 2F.  Try splitting a cushion wad to about 1/4 inch.  Drop the shot charge to about 1 oz.  Likely your load will fit, and still break clays or drop knockdowns.

If you need tighter chokes, load with a WW AA red wad  Thats the beauty of these loads, by carefully adjusting the column you will be able to get the results you need.

a 2.5" 12 gauge is a light gun.  The rule of 96, often called the gunmakers rule, says that the gun should weigh 96 time the weight of the shot load.  If the gun weighs 6 lbs, the shot load should be 1 oz.  If you have a 7.5 Lb gun, then you can use a 1 1/4 oz load.  Somewhere inbetween, interpolate.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The purpose of the fibre wad is to cushion the shot slightly so it doesn't get as deformed by the impulse of the thrust from the powder gasses. At CAS distances with CAS targers it probably does not matter. For flying targets you may find some holes in your pattern from deformed shot.

If you shortened your hulls to just under the normal length of where the folded crimp would be I don't quite understand why you have no room for a fibre wad. My normal load is 4.3CC of FFg, 1/8" card wad, 1/2" fibre wad, 1 1/8 ounces of shot and an over shot card. 4.3CC is actually a relatively light load, only around 65-68 grains. Even so, if I upped my load to 70 grains or so I would still have plenty of room for my shot and powder column because I do not completely fill up the hull with my load. The over shot card is to keep my crimps flat and prevent them from being slightly concave, because I am not quite filling up the case.

Just out of curiousity, why cut the hulls down? Why not just use factory length hulls and crimp them conventionally? Lack of a shotgun press? Just curious. I like to use my old MEC Jr and conventional hulls. Keeps things simple.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Point of order here!  Are you loading for a 2 1/2 inch chamber?

If you are experimenting with the roll crimp, so be it.  I've found that the best cases for roll crimping are the Federal paper.  (Federal, because thats all I can find these days.)  Plastic "heat hardens" with the rollcrimp tool and you are lucky to get a second shot from your case. 

Different cases have different capacities.  KENT have more volume, but the walls are a bit soft to roll crimp well.  Try some 3" cases, or slug rounds.  These can be found laying about your range, or in the burn barrel.  Remington GUN CLUB cases can be found by the bushel at the trap range.  They roll crimp easily and slip out of the chamber slick as a whistle with the gamers jerk ejection system, and just leave'em be and use another once fired case for the next time.

[Dodge City Slicker]

Just out of curiousity, why cut the hulls down? Why not just use factory length hulls and crimp them conventionally? Lack of a shotgun press? Just curious. I like to use my old MEC Jr and conventional hulls. Keeps things simple.

I do use a MEC 600 jr press, and if I cut the fibre wad to 1/4" thick, it works ok. I have used full length hulls in regular star crimped cases with 1/2" wads and they fit just fine. When trying to use the plastic trap wads, they don't stay compressed and just spring back allowing the shot to spill out.
To lube the fibre wads (mine are wood fibre), can I just dip them in hot lube and let them set ?...that way ther lube would be thin and evenenly spread...lubing the wads with cold lube is messy.
I like to experiment when nothing better to do...keeps me out of mischief !

[Dick Dastardly]

Silas McFee makes some short shells that shoot just fine.  He cuts down factory new hulls about 1/4".  He uses about 65 grains of FFg, .135 overpowder wad, 1/4" hot lubed fiber cushion wad, an ounce of shot and a nice roll crimp.  His pale green hulls are made by Fiocci as I recall.  He buys primed hulls and only uses 'em once.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

DCS;  Try a plastic wad made for field loads.  An example is the WW AA F114 (yellow).  I have found that the usual trap wads don't leave enough space for BP..  You can find alternatives to the AA F114 if you go to your smokeless shotgun loading manual under heavy 1 1/4 oz loads.  I still have some Pacific VERILITE PV8 B-3 wads (blue) with an oal of 1 9/16", after they are gone I will go to the WW or RP equiv.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm trying something new.  I got fed up throwing perfectly good cases away after a shot or two.  They were cut to 2.5 inches for my old Husqvarna and closed with a roll crimp.  Once the mouth is heat-hardened they don't want to roll anymore!

I picked some of the grungiest 2.5" cases from my discards.  I loaded 16 grains of Green Dot under an AA orange wad, 1 oz of shot and an overshot card.  The card was about 1/3 inch below the mouth.  Back to the MEC GRABBER.  I ran the shells through the three crimping stations.  (Starter, crimp, and taper finish)

The result was almost a perfect roll crimp, but leaving an octagon shaped star exposing the centre of the overshot card.

They seemed tight & secure.  Now to try them at the range!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Those plastic shells I shortened to 2 1/2" and crimped in the MEC Grabber work great.  I'm calling the technique of folding the crimp instead of rolling it the JAM-ROLL.  In fact, I'm giving up using the roll head and drillpress except for paper cases.  The plastic heat-hardens quickly, so you only get one good roll using once-fired cases.

I ran into another minor glich using the GRABBER on Federal paper hulls.  The depriming/inside sizing punch was intended to open up a plastic star crimp.  On paper hulls it left a noticeable flair.  This deformed the paper at the mouth, making roll-crimps a bit untidy.

I called MEC on the 'puter, and a 16 gauge depriming punch was winging its way to me.  Now the 12 ga. paper hulls, shortened to 2 1/2" are just slightly nudged straight.  The result is a perfect roll-crimp.

[Dick Dastardly]

A wood cone made on my lathe works great for reconditioning my hulls that have been roll crimped previously.  I put a wood screw in the center and cut the head off.  This rig in my cordless drill reconditions a hull in just seconds.

The reconditioned hull is once again fairly soft and pliable.  It loads just fine on my MEC 600 Jr. Mk-V.  I use a MEC Supersizer under a bench top drill press to hold the loaded shell while I spin down a nice roll crimp.  Then, I turn the loaded shell around and give the mouth end a good squeeze in the Supersizer collet.  The end product is a very high quality reloaded shell that drops easily into my 16ga SxS Stevens.  I do the same thing for all my other SxS gauge shotguns (10, 12, & 20)

If anyone wants one of these reconditioning cones, send a request to my email box.  I'll make you one and charge only the postage to ship it.  You can easily contact me by clicking on the banner below this post and using the "conntact us" box.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dick;  How slowly should the roll-crimp head be spun.  I have a real cheep press, as slow as it will go.  It still seems fast?